Official Luthiers Forum!

Not me, my bindings.
Well I just love sharing my blunders... not really. I got the binding all situated and glued. Finally. I used regular titebond on the back and then not being too happy with the results decided to try the CA method on the top... much easier and much more control of the whole process. I didn't feel like I was in a race against the glue, and I had a much better view of how everything was sitting. Loved the CA method!!!
To my disappointment though I realized the bindings were far too proud out the channel. It seemed so minimal before gluing... Now my hands and arms are tired of scraping and the binding is a lot thinner than I would have liked. Not too bad on the top, but on the back where I have a couple of Grand Canyon size gaps that are going to leave minimal binding behind. Side view is great though
I think this is a good learning experience, as most of my blunders are, and I now have a greater insight to binding and just how much should be protruding out. Either way I am glad I am one step closer to being finished.

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Well, it's not too late to route them back off and make your channels a bit deeper, and then bend new bindings...
You'll gain more from the experience of doing them over than by leaving them as is.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Indeed you are correct, however I have gotten to the point with this build that I think it is much better to leave my mistakes as they are. A couple reasons for this really:

1. Great, great reminder of what to do differently next time
2. This has been way too long of a build and I just want it done… imperfections and all ( it is aesthetic after all)
3. I already had to route off one binding and Bob C was nice enough to send me out 4 new ones N/C to make sure the color matched – so cool
4. Except the couple spots where the binding has gaps on the back, though thin, not thin enough to warrant a binding redo.

Thanks for the input though Don!!

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Yes but....... being a glutton for punishment, me not you, now you have an opportunity, while routing out the bindings as our pal Don recommended, to watch what happens. My guess is that on the back where you used Titebond they will route off much like what you saw cutting the initial channel. On the top where you used CA (CA stands for "certainly not authentic.....") you will see whole segments of binding shoot off the guitar and impale themselves in your prized dreadnought sitting across the room.......

Now my prediction for this evening besides widely scattered patches of darkness is that we will see a long line of CA fans weigh-in here and I will feel like a snake in a room full of rocking chairs......

Seriously - Christian my friend good going on the progress. I certainly understand just wanting to move on and get the thing done.

What's too long in guitar building? There's people on here who have taken seven years on and off building a guitar!

It's better to correct your mistake by routing off the binding than leaving it- when you have the guitar strung up & sitting somewhere, you will always be irritated and resolve to fix it one day.....procrastinism wins the day as you get tired of looking at the thing and end up discarding it, which is a perfect waste of decent tonewood.

I think the lesson here is not to get too hung up on guitar count- you end up with a pile of unplayable instruments; unlike a lot of things in this modern age, woodworking and guitarmaking TAKES time. A great life lesson can be learned in patience and longsuffering too.

And I am not talking about marriage, either....

Just my 2 cents/ 1 pence......

Hesh,
Yeah I remember reading somewhere about dangerous flying shards of binding while routing off. Though I only routed off one binding where a mishap occurred, it didn't happen to me and I did use CA on the first one. It routed off pretty smoothly and I didn't have to pull any chunks out of my Epi dreadna(o)ught sitting nearby Just the opposite actually - even though I had left the router in the same position I must have changed the depth ever so slightly and ended up with a few thou of coco left behind... I had to readjust the setting and go at 'er again.

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Binding is a tough job!
Even after 30 years I fit mine dry-mark the waist area-take only one side off(the other is taped )-glue up that side-wait 45 minutes--Before taking the other side off to glue I mark the ends of that sides binding & purfs!
Just to make sure they're right-then remove them -adjust the fit by my markings-then glue on the other side!
This makes it easier for me because i use allot of wood lines or colored purfs.top or back only -no side lines unless they are specified by the client!(which happens once every 10 years)
And only wood bindings!
I've find that this IS the time in making your guitars to really take your TIME to fit it all as perfectly as you can!!!!!
It will make you proud everytime you see it -even years later!



Mike

_________________
Mike Collins

I'm slowly being shamed into a repair job....
Sad, as I just got the new bindings from Bob and this time the hand bending went amazingly well - smooth and wrinkle free, even a nice tight waist. The gaps were more a cause of poor setup and taping than the bend. So now... if I decide to take another stab at it, I will make a change and use some of that curly maple Todd gave me rather then call Bob again. What a waste of cocobolo. I even had some nice miters on the end-graft/binding purflings.

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Things like this can happen Chris.... dont feel too bad it still happens to me every once in a while too. At least you know what to do differently next time. Don't know if this will help or not, but I got a friend to come over and offer another pair of hands on the last guitar I put the binding on. Not only did it speed up the process, but I was able to take a closer look at every step of the process to help make sure that things like this didnt happen. The extra set of hands sure come in handy!

If you dont go back and fix this now, this will eat at you every time you see the instrument. It is sad to waste good wood, but the rewards for fixing it outweight everything else.

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

I'll confirm that this is indeed what happens with CA.

The only place I use it for bindings now is on the end graft to get the purf mitres spot on and use Titebond on the rest.

Bob

_________________

------------------------------------------------------
Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Christian, when I tried routing my CA'd bindings off last summer, there was a short lived fire along the edge of the no scrapped guitar. It was a little worrisome as I'm sure you can imagine They were tortoise shell. If you do route, make sure they're wood. The celluloid bindings flamed right up, lol.

Thank you Bob - I now hear Marley's "Redemption Song" playing in my head along with the usual voices that I hear and never go away........

Arnt has a story too where when removing binding that was CAed on an entire segment came lose, cleanly, all at once and made him wonder about CA for bindings.

And one of our fearless leaders Lance, last I knew, does it exactly as Bob does, CA for the miters and to line it all up - tack gluing if you will, and some other glue for the heavy lifting when attaching bindings.

When I was obsessed with RC airplanes, helicopters, and later mini-turbine jets the rule of thumb was that CA did great on balsa which it penetrated well but for hard woods like ply and maple it did not penetrate before setting. Much of what we bind with is hardwoods and some are denser than others like BRW, ebony, African blackwood, etc.

It's also been my observation that CA can seal a gap area open and when dry leaves a translucent fill that can actually inhibit good results filling the gap with glue and dust.

But I am not trying to fight with anyone here so take this for what you paid for it....

Gives a new meaning to the term "burst".... ok, bad joke.
Did you use CA again?

Hesh - How many good examples do we have of such events? I would guess that some woods would be more prone to this, as how it was done in the first place too. Like I said, I only routed off one binding so my experience is limited, but mine came off just like when I routed the channel to begin with and even left a few spots with just a few thousands left behind. I don't think we can discount the method with one, two or even three examples of exploding bindings. And even so, if it was in every case, how will this effect the binding if you aren't trying to tear it off with a spinning cutter?
If it pops off so easy, at least it would be an easy repair...
I guess I will give you my feedback in the event that I route this binding off and start over.

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Christian, its not like I'm in a hurry. And you know if you don't, all you will ever see when you pick up the guitar is the binding.

_________________
Aoibeann

Redo it. It will be good repair lesson, more binding experience, and patience. I guess come from school if it bothers you, it must be pretty bad and sucks, and not what you would turn out to a customer. If doing it for yourself and only plan on doing this as a hobby or for friends, still treat it like your a pro and sending it out to highend buyer. Little things can be hidden and known only to you or maybe someone like another builder or wood worker and who can see the problems if really look hard. Some things like binding and gaps can't hide all that well. For me though I would just take the hit, and redo it.

I was doing finish work yesterday. When doing a between sand took the spray bottle did a squart all over the wood started sanding on. As I was sanding and in short order I was thinking this doesn't feel right, to slick, just not what should feel like. I was right as I had grabbed the Armour All bottle I had used earlier when detailing the truck. To late though, the damage was done. If only I had taken the time to put the bottle up, and not talk to the dog while starting a job. That is one more for not paying attention and taking things for granted. I Sanded back down to wood as I had no idea of what this would do to the finish, but don't think, no really I am sure it wouldn't do it any good and would suck up a finish. A good ole startover. I hate those, but they happen.

Looks good though when wet and slick just like in the car. Heck, maybe will go for that as a finish.

Stan, Armour All is practically pure silicone which is the bane of finishers. Even sanding the finish off may not have removed all of it. Your workbench and other surfaces may be contaminated. You should probably wipe down all possible surfaces with clean rags soaked with mineral spirits and then again with lacquer thinner. And seal your guitar with shellac or vinyl sealer before you start applying finish. Good luck!