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Anyone tried this new series of tuners from Gotoh with the 21:1 ratio? I've noticed all the new high zoot Taylors have them installed from the factory. After seeing them advertised, I order 2 sets of chrome and 2 sets of black from Allparts and it's been MONTHS. They are not cheap, either - and I get them almost wholesale from my partner in crime (Mike Metz at Thesis Audio Service).

I've been working on some short scale guitars of late, and the 18:1 tuners are just a little too fast when tuning - I keep overshooting the pitch when tuning the guitar. I hope these 21:1 tuners solve that twitchiness....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Hi Chris,

Are they actually a new design? I installed 21:1 deltas on couple guitars a few years ago. I'm pretty sure they came from LMI.

How short is short? My "0" is a 24" 12 fret that runs 510 minis with zero issues. I'm currently using the 18:1 510 mini tuners on everything but my baritone.

Best, M

I've only seen them advertised recently. I could be wrong about how new they are.

The short scale stuff I've been working on are basically 3/4 scale kids guitars. 22 inch scales, for the most part.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I've been using the Delta 21:1 with black plastic buttons for awhile now. I like them alot, much smoother than their 18:1 510's.

I wonder if they are making a delta 21 mini now? Maybe that's the new one?

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Yes - mini's and locking tuners.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I agree ... I've been using the Gotoh 510 in both the 21:1 and 18:1 for years (if these are the tuners being discussed).

I have used the 510 21:1 and really like how smooth they are. It does take a bit of getting use to the longer ratio though, especially when putting new strings on.
They do allow for a finer tuning though, which is what you’re hoping for.


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Love 21:1!! I'd forgotten how much until a set landed on my latest. Gotoh direct from Japan is typically painfully slow. I'm learning to plan ahead which totally goes against my character.

It's been a month since my 2 sets of chrome Gotoh 21:1 tuners arrived from Allparts. They say anything black is taking forever to get from their Asian suppliers. What is up with that?

Is ANYONE getting their black 21:1 Gotoh's from any other wholesaler?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I don't know if they do wholesale, but Philadelphia Luthiers Tools has a good selection of Gotoh tuners including 21:1 tuners in black.

If you go to their site: https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/ and search for "Delta", you'll find various versions of Gotoh 21:1 tuners.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

I've contacted Allparts AGAIN, and several wholesalers - apparently, Gotoh is NOT answering the phone. The general impression is this.... If you have Gotoh stuff, great - but it's rapidly becoming unobtainium.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

That is a tragedy in my building world! So many builders "go to".

I just put in an order with my one of my guys, Japarts out of Vancouver. Cosmo black 510 with a Faux horn button. I'll let you know.

Josh at JAparts in Vancouver has always been good at replying. He's a pretty big Gotoh distributor, maybe he knows what's going on...?

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Recently I ordered 5 sets of 510's in Cosmo Black from Josh at JAparts.
I knew there would be considerable lead time so I ordered well in advance.
I ordered on July 26 and the shipment arrived on Sep 06...

I can't get hold of Josh, Philadelphia Luthiery Supply doesn't carry the ones I want, and Allparts won't even admit they carry Gotoh anymore. It's been AUGUST, and someone owes me an explanation.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I almost dove in on the 21:1s, but worried they would be a biatch stringing up. Think about stage artists. Breaking a string during a session. Glad to follow this discussion.

oops! wrong place for this post

The black 21:1 Gotoh tuners I ordered from Allparts finally showed up in May..... 10 months on backorder. Allparts rep said they were going to drop Gotoh stuff because shipping dates were so far out of whack. And of course - it took me until September to mention it.... Shame on me.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

We have a few sets from 6-7 years ago, so nothing new...just less popular than the standard 510's. HEAVY but smooth and durable. If indeed they become difficult to source, I'm not sure what builders of AGF-approved guitar designs will do.

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For the times they are a changin'

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I hate em. Used them on a few of my own 12 - 15 years ago... and have encountered them on some other guitars since. They require so very much turning to tune to stinkin pitch I was afraid that I was going to develop carpel bicep.

IIRC the non 21:1 Gotohs are 18:1 and that's fine and even more precise than anyone needs. Gotoh tuners are great I just don't like the 21:1 ones.

If the details are done, strings stretched, nut slots free from binding and for electrics tail piece/trem properly strung up no one needs 21:1 IME to tune very precisely.

We've even had gigging musicians complain to us that they didn't want anything beyond 14:1 that would slow on the fly (during the tune) tuning.

As per my OP, I only needed them for short scale guitars....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

These tuners work great. That said, wouldn't put them on any of my instruments. But then again, I don't build AGF-spec guitars.

What is an AGF spec guitar?

"Acoustic Guitar Forum spec"

This term gets used here from time to time to refer to the non-traditional, modern aesthetics used by many (some might claim a majority) of the guitar builders who have posted on the AGF over the years. Sometimes it's used simply as a descriptive (sterotype) term. Other times it's used in a snobbish or dismissive manner, which is silly IMO.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Clearly meant in the former sense, but dismissive and snobbish is interesting...tell me more...

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan