Official Luthiers Forum!

Recovering from a particularly viscous head cold, so taking a bit of a break from work to solicit some opinions on proper bar fret height after a refret or adjustment. It seems like there are at least three schools of thought on this:

1. 0.045-0.050 in. - pretty much the TJ Thompson approach...lots of height to handle a couple L/C/P before another refret or 'lifting' of the wire. Also where the boss prefers the height.

2. 0.037 in. - what Martin's bar fret maestro mills his to on new or refret work...apparently very adept at using a pneumatic body work file to rough the height before final level and crowning!!! Wish I had been on that particular trip.

3. 0.025-0.030 in - what at least a few online seem to prefer, although it's hard to tell if these individuals are truly doing bar fret work or simply talking about it.

Opinions? Rationale?

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

What's "bar fret height" ?
Also, what's "L/C/P" ?
Alan

Level, crown, polish.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

We are in the .045" camp for the reasons that you cited, serviceability for L,C,P's in the future. It's also what most folks are used to these days, higher frets.

I don't know what's historically accurate though and come to think of it I don't recall ever measuring untouched bar fret height when we encounter them. It's pretty rare for us these days to see bar frets or agree to work on them since we are now shying away from big arse jobs.

Speculation on my part but your (2) may be what it is for historical accuracy at least for Martin's with bar frets. Again speculation on my part.

Lastly taking down excess height with files is a tough slog. We spent nearly a day and a half just knocking off .010" on my Strat.... Will never do that again and the next time we had a calling to reduce fret height we refretted it in half the time.

Hope you feel better.

I apologize for authoring such a cryptic post, Mr. Stassforth - I'll blame the massive doses of DayQuil!.

Bar frets are the type of fret used by Martin up through 1933 (well past the time when every other company had moved to standard T frets), so repair shops sometimes see these guitars in for work, to include fret leveling, crowning, and polishing (aka, L/C/P in the shorthand we use to fill out the job ticket). The fret material is made by rolling a rod of nickel-silver through a set of rollers, which gives a 0.050" by 0.225" or so bar-shaped fret with slightly rounded top and bottom edge...the fret stock is hammer-set into slots which are usually a bit narrower than the stock, providing a wedging action that makes for a stiff neck without the need for a truss rod. As Mr. Breakstone mentioned, it also makes for a 2.5-3x multiplier on a refret for mere mortals. Even a busy shop is unlikely to see more than a few of these a year, so it is a skill set which is seldom used.

My question was directed primarily at repair people (although thanks for your reply!) after a discussion with one of our customers that has become convinced by some unnamed internet authority that milling his brand new, lovely bar frets from 0.048" down to about 0.028" would make the world a better place and lower health insurance premiums for everyone. I left the discussion after mentioning to the customer that the guitar came to us with 0.030" height or lower...and questioning whether he really wanted us to bill him another 2-3 hours to undo the other 7 hours of work (at $110/hour bench rate).

The boss finally convinced the customer to go no lower that 0.037" - the older Martin spec - but even then, it seems like such a waste. If I work tomorrow (I may just pack and head home to bed instead, given my ears are still blocked), I suspect I'll be providing some of the motive power for the job. Ugh...

Thanks, Mr. Breakstone - I am hoping for the best.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Thanks Woodie and Chris for clarifying that.
Learn something new here everyday, almost.
Alan

Fret height is about personal preference. I prefer 0.040" for bar frets, with a maximum of 0.045". Anything higher than that tends to be too 'catchy' when sliding. Conversely, lower than around 0.032" requires too much finger pressure for a clean note.

With regards to the life of the frets, IMHO it is hard to beat the durability of the original Martin frets, reputedly because of the 30% nickel content. Typical frets today are 18% nickel. I don't know if anyone is offering that material for bar frets today; a Google search seems to indicate it is an obscure alloy that is generally called cupro-nickel 715, not nickel-silver.

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John