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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7378
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Clay S. wrote:
For your viewing pleasure and to lighten the mood a bit I will offer an inexpensive solution which could work, but which not many would dare to use. It is the "Farm kitchen sink" saddle, a.k.a. the bone on bone solution by those of us with bad knees. gaah laughing6-hehe
It could fix the intonation in a non invasive way and gluing a bone saddle to and in front of the existing one might not hurt the sound as much as one might think. Considering how many bizarre saddle solutions have been done over the years it may not be as outlandish as it seems, and is totally reversible when someone finally girds up their loins to do the job right.

The second picture is of an Osprey pair and a little bobble head between them who are trying again to raise a family. Last year they were at about this same point when a violent thunderstorm wiped out the nestling. I'm hoping they have better luck this year.


I used that bone on bone solution once on a cheap guitar several years ago. It worked just fine. Owner was cheap too and agreed that if it failed he would bring it back and pay for the proper solution.

As far as Ospreys go, we counted four nesting pairs on the high voltage power line towers coming from the dam by the river. One pair is close enough to the road that we can see them in the nest. They have one nestling this year and it seems to be about 2/3 grown. Cool birds.


Steve

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"Music is what feelings sound like"



These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post (total 2): Hesh (Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:43 am) • Clay S. (Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:03 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:09 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Posts: 2173
There’s also two sides to every story, of course…
I recently did a commission for a “friend“ of mine.
When he took delivery the guitar, it was the middle of winter and he lives in apartment building in Manhattan. Those things are notorious for being drier than a popcorn fart.
Anyway, he calls me up and says the guitar is buzzing .so I said tell him no problem bring me the guitar and he starts ranting and raving about how it’s defective and this and that and I said I’ll do whatever it takes. I said if it needs some fret filing,I’ll do that. If it needs a Fret job I will do that -Not interested, so I finally said look I’ll give your money back bring me the Guitar and I’ll give you the full purchase price back , he didn’t want to do that either .
So I’m sure he brought the guitar to someone else to do the work on it and to that person it looks like I didn’t do what I was supposed to do but that wasn’t the case was it?


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These users thanked the author Brad Goodman for the post (total 3): Durero (Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:19 pm) • Smylight (Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:18 am) • Hesh (Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:13 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:06 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
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First name: Josh
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Sounds like you went above and beyond the call of duty Brad, your customers are lucky to have you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:23 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Posts: 13387
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Brad Goodman wrote:
There’s also two sides to every story, of course…
I recently did a commission for a “friend“ of mine.
When he took delivery the guitar, it was the middle of winter and he lives in apartment building in Manhattan. Those things are notorious for being drier than a popcorn fart.
Anyway, he calls me up and says the guitar is buzzing .so I said tell him no problem bring me the guitar and he starts ranting and raving about how it’s defective and this and that and I said I’ll do whatever it takes. I said if it needs some fret filing,I’ll do that. If it needs a Fret job I will do that -Not interested, so I finally said look I’ll give your money back bring me the Guitar and I’ll give you the full purchase price back , he didn’t want to do that either .
So I’m sure he brought the guitar to someone else to do the work on it and to that person it looks like I didn’t do what I was supposed to do but that wasn’t the case was it?


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Hey Brad sure there are always two sides and that's why we are very careful as to what we take in and from who. For example a hypothetical is a client brings in a guitar with a horrible set-up and just wants the frets dressed but no one to touch the set-up. We do as they please (this is hypothetical) he picks up and then a year later someone buys the thing and flames us for the set-up in a bad review.

Yesterday I had a Strat with locking tuners that the owner had lost the knobs and spindles for two of the locking tuners. So he had been tying the strings on the B and the D. I was on the fence on working on it if the client did not buy new tuners. We don't sell tuners and we have our clients purchase them wherever they wish and bring them to us. So the only thing in this for us is knowing that the work we do won't be degraded by premature string breakage because of non tapered tuning posts and a knot or two in the strings. I went ahead and restrung it in a manner that works but I'm still second guessing myself that maybe I should have required new tuners before my name went on any work on this thing. So there are two sides to every story and no one will ever know that this was a college student with limited finances and we tried to help them out actually.

So we won't participate in bad work and we live by the if we touch it we own the impression of the entire thing, perhaps...... but there are exceptions if one has a heart.... and wants to help people bad enough.

But bridges do not get up on their own, go peer in the fridge at 9:00 PM for something to snack on and then come back and reattach themselves on the guitar in the wrong place. :). Hard to imagine how any back story has this as intentional.

Amazingly it appears that the mistake endured 17 years with no one doing what it took to get it fixed. And the beat goes on, sadly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:14 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Hesh wrote:
"Amazingly it appears that the mistake endured 17 years with no one doing what it took to get it fixed. And the beat goes on, sadly."

Many of the people who buy $10,000 guitars are not working musicians and are working at something much more remunerative. If the owner played Cowboy chords in the first position and tuned the guitar accordingly he might not have noticed. And friends who knew better may have still said "nice guitar" to be polite. The guitar is an imperfectly tuned instrument by design, and a skillful musician could probably adjust the tuning to the key the song was in to give acceptable results even with a poorly compensated instrument. I have heard some players will "bend" the string slightly if a note on a fret plays flat.
But most likely the guitar spent much of it's life as a "Closet Queen" with it's faults hidden under beautiful wood and shiny lacquer. That it has potential to be brought into good playing condition with a new bridge and nut, a refret and some gyrations to adjust the truss rod offers hope that some day it may be made right.



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post (total 2): Smylight (Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:34 pm) • Hesh (Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:01 am)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:02 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
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Clay S. wrote:
Hesh wrote:
"Amazingly it appears that the mistake endured 17 years with no one doing what it took to get it fixed. And the beat goes on, sadly."

Many of the people who buy $10,000 guitars are not working musicians and are working at something much more remunerative. If the owner played Cowboy chords in the first position and tuned the guitar accordingly he might not have noticed. And friends who knew better may have still said "nice guitar" to be polite. The guitar is an imperfectly tuned instrument by design, and a skillful musician could probably adjust the tuning to the key the song was in to give acceptable results even with a poorly compensated instrument. I have heard some players will "bend" the string slightly if a note on a fret plays flat.
But most likely the guitar spent much of it's life as a "Closet Queen" with it's faults hidden under beautiful wood and shiny lacquer. That it has potential to be brought into good playing condition with a new bridge and nut, a refret and some gyrations to adjust the truss rod offers hope that some day it may be made right.


This is why many of the Martins with the saddle in the wrong place still occasionally show up, people didn't notice if they did cowboy chords. I bet you're right Clay.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:27 am 
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Koa
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Posts: 529
Location: St. Charles MO
First name: Karl
Last Name: Borum
State: MO
Zip/Postal Code: 63303
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks for the thread. As a beginner, building guitars for myself, the discussion has been an eye opener in more ways than one, and more informative that you know. This has got my mind racing on how to insure better, more accurate work, and to include process validation to confirm it has been done correctly. Indeed, it is a sad situation for all involved.

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These users thanked the author Kbore for the post: Hesh (Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:39 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:41 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Kbore wrote:
Thanks for the thread. As a beginner, building guitars for myself, the discussion has been an eye opener in more ways than one, and more informative that you know. This has got my mind racing on how to insure better, more accurate work, and to include process validation to confirm it has been done correctly. Indeed, it is a sad situation for all involved.


Karl thank You! You made my day! If you are keen to ensure that your processes produce quality results and you also won't let crap work out your door this thread has been completely worthwhile to me and my peers in professional Lutherie.

It makes a huge difference and is also sadly sorely needed lots of small builder (and some factory) stuff is not up to where it should be and when that happens everyone loses.

Thanks Karl if I can ever lend a hand I'm happy to do so.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: Kbore (Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:44 pm)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:39 pm 
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Koa
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First name: Richard
Last Name: Hutchings
City: Warwick
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What a great thread. I won't even complete my first because I don't want anyone to even see it. I can do better.

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