Official Luthiers Forum!

So I'm bumping this thread because it is now pretty clear to me that the OLF without community financial contributions may be lost. That's right I've been in touch with Lance, I contacted him about the spammer and I learned that Lance's costs like many things have sky rocketed. Lance told me the server alone costs $600 a month now.

Sponsorship is way down here on the OLF so if we want to keep the OLF available to us it's time to make a contribution or you may lose this site forever more.

I'm not affiliated financially in any way with Lance or the OLF and again my interest is in helping the folks who want to learn lutherie do exactly that just like I did two decades nearly ago with the OLF absolutely key and instrumental.... in my development as a luthier.

I know dozens of working in the trade luthiers who started here and greatly benefitted from the OLF just like I did.

So I am going to use the "w" word because in my judgement and in my experience with the OLF it is time to issue a warning that the OLf is in danger of perishing forever more without more financial support from our community.

This is not the time to want to look at the books or attempt to arm chair reorganize what Lance has built and manages here. He's not interested in that what he is interested in is if the OLF has the possibility of remaining financially viable or is it time to pull the plug.

If you value the OLF and would like to contribute please do so it is more important now than ever before.

I'm discussing switching to a Patreon model with Lance and will see what he says. What the OLF needs is a predictable revenue stream to cover the over $7K in server costs annually and maybe get us some software updates too.

If you want to contribute please do so as Lance has asked in this thread here for now. He may wish to change the funding model of the OLf going forward and I'll share what I learn from him.

I’m not discounting the need to support the forum if we want to keep it alive, but $600/mo to host a single relatively active bulletin board is bonkers. Even with 1000’s of concurrent users, robust security and DDoS support that number seems off by more than a factor of 10. Why is the cost so off the charts?


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Thanks Hesh, appreciate your efforts.

I want to see the OLF thrive too. Fun place, good folks and great access to building info. I love it.

Where I see issues with this -

OLF is private, we're here at Lance's pleasure. I understand wanting to keep the books private. But when you are asking for money I think you owe contributors at least some general information.

What we know or don't know? The OLF is in financial trouble. More contributions are needed. $7000 is needed to cover server costs. That's it as far as what we know.

I'd like to know how many members visit every day or just weekly. Outside of a well off benefactor, those groups will likely form the list of financial supporters.

To meet the server needs, we need 70 members to kick in $100 a year. Not a big issue. BUT, do we have that many members that visit daily? Daily and weekly? AND are willing to contribute?

It would be nice if Lance participated in this discussion.

No one wants to send in a hundred bucks and a week later hear we didn't meet the fundraising goal so the site is toast anyway. I'd rather have a new tool!

Full disclosure, I've made two contributions in the last year of $100 each and for the above reasons am hesitant to send more in the blind.

Maybe we need a new thread of members willing to keep the OLF alive and gauge our options ourselves.

Where is DOGE when you need 'em?

Brian

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Randy and Brian I can't say that I don't share some of your concerns but I also know from experience that going down the due diligence or more disclosure path is not going to happen. So I don't deal in things that are not possible I'm a realist with a lot of experience with Lance and the OLF.

As for server costs this is what Lance said to me yesterday and I do not know Lance to be an untruthful person. So I can't and actually won't get involved in arguing for his numbers or even the situation here.

I am simply stepping up as I have for years here and trying to keep the lights on for those who want to learn.

I come here just like you guys do and I am here to enjoy myself. I have no formal role on the OLF, no equity, no influence beyond my friendship with Lance.

With this said Brian this is your second push back and I respect that and perhaps you should not consider contributing if this is bothersome for you under the current circumstances that I again offer.... are highly unlikely to ever change. If I was in your shoes and did not know Lance personally like I do I don't think I would contribute if it bothered me this much. So I can relate Brian. I already sent money and I did wonder if I am throwing it away now.

Randy if you are uncomfortable with what you know now contributing same deal perhaps you shouldn't. In fact no one should contribute unless you are grateful enough as I am to take a chance and throw some money in the OLF's direction.

Randy and Brian I thank you kindly for your support in the past and if the forum does go teats up I hope you guys continue to enjoy lutherie and stick with it. I'm going to do this until I die I love it so much. Worked on a 40's Gibson and a Gretch this morning.

It may be time to sunset the OLF and that's OK with me too. Forums in general are dying based on my rounds with other forums recently.

So again please contribute if you want and find value here AND are willing to make a contribution with no guarantees, no due diligence, no direct contact with Lance etc. Kind of reminds me of Ukraine in some ways, one has to have faith in their beliefs and commitments at times with no guarantees in the end.

For me though I have to try and that is why I am posting right now. Two years from now I want to know that I did all I could to help keep the thing alive for others who come after us.

It is what it is and it has been largely just like this for years now.

I will be sorry to see the forum go and my friends and I are in contact off the forum. So time will tell if the OLF survives I just want you guys to know this is different this time in my experience. I don't hear Jim Morrison in my head singing "this is the end" yet but it has occurred to me.

Hesh my friend,

My posts shouldn't be considered push back, they're not, nor am I bothered by anything. I'm saying I can contribute the same or more or not.

Just trying to provide some thoughtful constructive criticism. If I didn't care about OLF, I wouldn't bother posting or contributing.

It would take little in the way of information for me to swim into deeper water -- already in the pool.

Math is math, if 150 members kicked in $50/yr or 70 @ $100/yr or 35 @ 200 the server cost would be covered. No emotion involved. Do we have enough interest for that???

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

A note to everyone at once, and no one in particular.

I send Lance $10 per month through Patreon. I have done that for nine years, and will continue to do so as long as the OLF remains. I find value in the OLF, so I financially support it. Simple as that. Lance had asked for funding through Patreon at some point, so that's how I give money to the OLF.

It would be great if Lance were open to talking about changes to the OLF. But he's not. After watching this discussion happen over and over for that last few years, I think it is pretty clear that Lance has no interest in making any changes. So, tying your financial support of the OLF to getting Lance to change things about the OLF is not realistic. He's just not going to do it.

I find it better to think about the OLF the way I think about public television. The question is simple. Public television is not perfect, but I do watch it sometimes. Since I watch it, I should help support it financially. In like manner, if I derive some useful information from the OLF, I should financially support it. So I do, despite the fact that it is imperfect and resistant to change.

I don't blame anyone for being frustrated with Lance's shortcomings. I share the frustration. But in the end, I accept that the OLF is what it is, and Lance is not going to change it. So, what is it worth to me as is? Is it worthless? Not at all. So, I continue to give money to help keep it going.

That's probably the worst fundraising pitch ever (i.e., we are going to keep doing things the way we always have, but please keep sending money, or else we will stop entirely), but it is also probably the most truthful.

I see the Russian spammer is back in force for the 3rd time. This doesn't prove to me that investing in the OLF is a good idea right now.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Have answered every call for funding since joining, and a Patrion monthly, which I just bumped up, because I value the utility the OLF provides.

Wouldn't it be great if every active member who receives some value would take a minute and do the same? You can customize your monthly contribution to fit your budget and value recieved.

There is strength in numbers, and community. It seems apparent that the OLF is not a profit-model, but created out of passion for community.

Its not easy to find guitar head friends......

https://www.patreon.com/c/user/about?u=3700433

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum