Official Luthiers Forum!

Folks, what's up with all the off topic threads in this section? Don't y'all have a section devoted to just that? All the actual usefulness of this forum is being buried under page after page of off topic crap, never to be found again. Y'all are quickly making this forum a complete mess.... I count 9(10 with this one) off topic threads on this page(page 1) alone..... Can ya take it to the off topic section, please?

I would agree with Mario's count and also agree that we should keep the "Main Discussion Forum" reserved solely for guitar building or repair issues. Can an administrator sweep those into the "Off Topics" section for now, short term...and longer term, we should just be more aware of a thread's category before initiating..

One feature I use when I log on is the "View Active Topics" link at the top left section. It seems to get me quickly to responses that have arrived since my last visit...but it also contains "Off Topic" threads that are actively popular at the time.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

We actually were much better at segmenting the "Off topic " stuff in the old version of the software. There were sections for MGL, Resonators, CNC, etc. (No electrics, though)...and lot of people just used them more routinely. It's different now and folks seem to just lump a lot more into the "Main Discussion Forum".

I think it's unfair to suggest that any criticism of the number of "other" threads indicates a disregard of those qualities that Todd raised. I don't believe that's fair and I would hope that we could keep it objective and agree on what is "mainstream" and what is "off topic."

Anyway, it's our forum and we all have a right to make suggestions to tailor it the way most see fit.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective as to what is "related" to guitar building when considering the OLF, a forum, and what is not?

I went through Todd's list and am 100% in agreement with Todd's assessment.

But I want to suggest something else here too. Part of the appeal of the OLF for me is being able to follow specific builders through their development as builders and often as businesses too. Peter is a builder that I have followed for several years now and since my interest in forum content is not limited to guitars but includes the people who make them I see Peter's post, as sad as yesterday was for Peter, as related. It's also not something that will happen very often to any of us.

Announcements of OLF gatherings - related? To me it is since the gathering is all about guitar building. A player playing out with one of our guitars - related? Sure - it's all about the product of guitar building and the focus is also on the player - something Rick advocates very correctly in my view.

My one beef is to remind folks to try to title your threads as descriptively as possible so that people at a glance can have the opportunity to decide if they are interested in the topic or not. But I can also live with the threads that are not titled very specifically too.

What is related and what is not is going to be a very personal thing - I read that Obama and Cheney are related........

Does this thread belong in the off topic section?

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

I have to agree with Mario to a point. When the transition was made, the Main Discussions area was a total mess. Its been improving, but still could use some care in improving titles, people checking the archives before posting, etc... Some issues being off topic is subjective.

And why do we have tuts as announcements. Isnt that what the tut section is for?

I was thinking about the non-building related topics again last night. I read the off-topic section just as actively as the building forum, and putting these threads there would really help the efficiency of the OLF as a whole. I understand that some people are worried about missing the non-building threads, but the solution to that seems as simple as getting into the habit of checking Off Topic Discussions.

We have noticed this too. But we don't think it is anything critical

Part of the issue might be the fact that the Off topics area is buried in the list now, we will try to move it back up under the main discussion.

As far as the tuts as annoucements, I thought it would be nice to have them up there for everyone to see (since they are in the tutorial forum) and after a week or so let them fall off.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

tuts? Now you're abbreviating....

The reason I bring this up is that there have been some good question/topics raised in threads, and within the same day, that thread gets shuffled off to page 2 to never be seen again, then by day 2 it's on page 3 or 4, or 7! Absolutely forgotten...

The rest of us realize there are a lot of you here who have become close friends, and that's all nice, but if the forum is to be used for what its intended for, that stuff needs to have its own section. Gatherings, who's playing Hesh's guitar where, sad posts, cool visits to whoever's shop/garage/restaurant, welcome threads, new member announcement, etc, etc, etc.... belongs in the off topic section.

That doesn't mean the OLF goes all sterile and business-like; it simply means the main section is for instrument building/repairing related stuff, and the rest goes into the off topics section.

Stop and look at this place; it's a damned mess! I realized how bad when last night, I went looking for something I saw just a couple days ago and finally found it on page 7! 2 days, and it's buried 7 pages down!!! No forum can survive long if it's run like that. It's your call.

I love this place

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I understand the announcement technique, but it sort of reinforces the idea that there's no need to check the other forum sections, and it clutters every other forum section.

Paring down the main board index would help. About half of the forum sections should probably be stickied threads.

I love this place AND I agree with Mario. A little organization would go a long, long way. It doesn't make sense to have one forum section with 656 threads and another with 13 threads that hasn't been active since September '07. Why do we need a whole subforum, given top priority at that, for the Montreal Guitar Show and we can't have a section for Electric Guitars? How about changing the CNC section to a Tools and Jigs section, balance out the main section a bit?

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I'm probably guilty, and I agree. However, I think that during the transition from the old system to the new, we got used to posting off topic stuff in the main thread. It has settled down some, but we still need to work on our discipline. It's our problem, not Lance and Brock's problem. If we want it kept more to the point, we should do that. Then it will happen. It would be helpful if the Off Topic Thread was moved up a little on the list. I tend to forget about it when it is at the bottom. I think Tutorials are fine. They are guitar related, and having them in the Main Discussion first generates good discussion of procedures, that sometimes improves the process significantly. I don't know about "I'm new here" threads. Not sure how to treat them. If they all go to off topic, then we don't know each other as well, and that's part of what makes OLF better than other forums, forii, forae?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I love this place too and my guitar building has improved far beyond what it could or would have without the OLF and it's unique blend of pertinent information AND personal encouragement and camaraderie.

I think the opperative word in Mario's post is "intended." Do we know what the OLF is and was exactly intended to be? I can't honestly say that I do. I mean I am sure that we would all agree that the OLF is intended to be a suppository/repository for guitar building information.

But I would make the case that the OLF was intended to be this and more - I see it as an on-line community where it is not "off topic" for any of us to share things beyond the precise scope of guitar guts..... It's true that the "off topic" section was created for non guitar related threads but again what is related and what is not is going to be a very personal and individual thing.

I agree that people, me included, can do a better job of asking themselves in advance what is "on topic" and what is not and I will endeavor to do this - promise. But I don't agree that announcements of forum gatherings, performers using our instruments especially when the performer is an OLF member too, and sharing such as Peter did with us are to be religated to an off topic section.

At the end of the day this forum is VERY successful. It has grown and grown and now includes many members who are at the top of the game. Beginners are still very welcome and I still don't see people being sent to the library instead of someone being more helpful, searching the archives for them, and posting a link with the requested info. Well I do see some of this but I also see people here taking the time to not blow someone off who asks a question that has been asked before. Good on ya!

Regardless of how anyone feels about what is off topic and what is not it is pretty difficult to argue with the success and growth of the OLF. But maybe that should be an off topic thread............

I've been trying to move the Off Topic forum up in the order, but it is not responding.
This is one of the bugs we are still dealing with. We will get it fixed though.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

You guys gotta stop treating the Off Topic section like the redheaded stepchild... It's just a different section of the forum, not a "lesser" one. Get in the habit of checking it and responding, and then people will start posting things there without fear of no one looking at it.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I would strongly suggest we not start using sticky threads. A computer related forum I used to follow became all sticky threads and it was unbearable.

And whats wrong with "tuts"? Its an common term used around here and is not part of the whole phone text lingo.

I agree, it's something that should be used very, very judiciously, and there should never be more than one or two at a time. The OLF subscription announcement is a good use of a sticky in my opinion. I'm just saying, if they make the decision that they really want to highlight something for a time, a stickied thread is a better way to do that than adding a forum section.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Again...we actually have the means to solve THE issue.

1) For those who don't wish to be bothered with non-guitar stuff they can go to the "Main Discussion" section...assuming that this section only contains guitar-related topics. It's not fair to "force" non-guitar building or repairing on everyone. And keeping it separated sure makes it a lot easier to find things.

2) For those who wish to remain in touch with every thread that is started and stay current as to recent posts, then click on the "View Active Topics" link. I more often use this approach when I visit the OLF because I happen to like the cameraderie and non guitar-related topics.

This has nothing to do with the mission of the forum...nobody's arguing the merit of the off-topic threads...just that they be classified as such. We have identified the problem and as usual...it is we, the posters. We need to become more disciplined in posting threads where they belong. It's just that simple IMO...don't expand THE issue beyond what it takes to resolve THE issue.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

what is related and what is not is going to be a very personal and individual thing

Hesh Buddy Pal Sir, it's very simple. Unless you're asking a specific question that is building or repair related, or responding to such a question, you're off topic. Period.

Guys, if you'd follow what I'm trying to get you to understand and follow, you'd still have your friendly forum, exactly as it is today, only difference is that you'd be posting mostly in the off topics section instead of the main section, leaving the main section as a useful place to come ask for help or to learn.

As it is today, if it continues unchecked, the main section, and the archives of such, will quickly become useless, and the only ones around here will be that core group of friends.

I'm not suggesting y'all stop being a support group for each other; I'm merely suggesting y'all do it in another section, were it belongs.

Quoted For Truth...

In other non-guitar forums I participate in, the Off Topic section is often the most active part of the forum because people actually use it.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Hear, Hear!

Searching the 'active topics', which are all mixed up now , is a nightmare (slight hyperbole). The only way theoretically to avoid all the off topic stuff now is to go straight to the main discussion forum, and guess what, half the topics should be in the 'off topic' section, again, slight exageration.

And, I've asked before, but please, please make topic titles relevant and obvious to the topic you want to discuss 'Help please' might be polite but tells me absolutely nothing, I'm likely just to ignore it, and I might be the only person in the universe that could give you a cogent answer.

Colin

Hey, I've been in complete agreement with both Mario and Rick Turner on consecutive days!

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

This is not correct.

The Main Discussion Forum is to be use for talking about anything guitar related. Building and sharing our experiences.

Mario, please let us make the rules.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I agree with most of what's being brought out here, namely that we need less off-topic stuff in the main area. But I do like the loose constraints that we have here; we're a real social bunch, I'd say. I'll say again, we have more fluff than some other forums, and that's what gives this place its heart.

Myself, I seem to go straight to the Main area and often forget that other forums even exist. True, there is the link to the index, but it's overwhelmed by all the other stuff on the page. I think it would help if links to the other forums were visible on all the forum pages, maybe a drop-down menu, or all the forums listed in a line, maybe in the present nav bar where the index link is? If the links were all one line or a drop-down, it would take up a lot less vertical real estate.

Just my two cents. Or 3.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I have to agree with Grumpy. I've done several searches looking for information, with the new forum software, and spent too much time going through useless (to me at the moment) information. Yes I can be impatient, but usually I'm running in from the shop looking for a specific item and can't find it. However, I find it convienent to check the "social issues" and guitar building issues all on one page. This certainly will make a mess out of the archives. Jonathan stated that we should look at the Off Topic Area with no less respect than the Main Discussion Area. As far as "tutorials" , tuts are for kids, I like them. Sticky threads? Whatz that? Still loving this place, Clinton

Any reason why there can't be separate forum "rooms" with such headings as: Building and repair; Completed Guitars; New Member introductions; etc. etc. It would make it very easy to find whatever it is you are looking for.