Official Luthiers Forum!

Well here are some pics...this is my first acoustic ...just practice for the big dance...it is built from some old cypress that I had laying around...fret board is purple heart.I kinda debated on posting...all the guitars I see here are so beautiful...but perhaps some other newbies will learn from my mistakes...so as a service(or not?) to the OLF I am putting myself out there...
Ya'll feel free to dog me...i have tough skin...I know I am a space cadet. ..it is just a fun hobby for me.If I belong on a less advanced forum ya'll shout out...I don't want tp waste the pro's time.
Things I have learned so far....work CLEANER!
build better jigs
proper practice means slowing down....no matter how amped you are about building again.
Wood is wasted by lack of attention...even scrap wood was a tree....respect it .
even if they are pine braces...make sure they are spaced properly...
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk29 ... GA0036.jpg
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk29 ... GA0048.jpg

sorry about the bad pictures and ugly face...

Looking good big john,

it very brave of you to tackle a cutaway on your first build but it looks like you are going great guns so far.

well done


Joel.

Brave or just plane stupid...not sure which...
the truth is a broke the side when bending it...
I got so upset ...then i took a deep breath and remembered ...
this is PRACTICE
so I cleaned it up and put the cut away in.hey....my other choice was to give up on the side and waste the wood,,
but that is just not in my nature.
peace Joel and thanks for looking.

John,

I think you'll find you're on the right forum. The folks here run the entire range from
pros, to part-timers w/pro-level skills, to hobbyists of varying skill levels, to learners.
I've been amazed about much patience folks in the former groups have in sharing
information and discussing basics with folks in the latter groups.

Your own comments about working slowly and respecting the wood tell me you're on the
right track.

Be sure to make use of the search function here - there is a goldmine of info in the archives postings.

I'm somewhere between learner and hobbyist, but I did notice one thing on your photos. Its a bit
hard to tell, but it looks like you've trimmed the back brace ends short of your pencil outline.
Standard practice for back back braces is to "tuck" the ends of braces to into the linings, leaving
them ending just shy of the sides, but well nestled into the lining. (Same goes for the upper arms
of the X-braces on the tops and the upper transervse brace - some tuck in the lower arms of the
X-braces, too, but not all.) I think most folks glue them on longer than needed and then wait until the back
fitting process to determine the exact length to trim them to.

If you end up with a problem here, don't despair - its pretty easy to carve away the braces and then re-brace
the back (I speak from experience here - a back on an earlier build of my mine warped when the sun angle
changed with the season and it took a sunbath in my workshop).

Good luck and congrats on being brave enough to post pix of your early efforts.

Eric

Howdy Big John,
You sure you ain't built guitars before? Man, that looks perfect. GR8 Job!

Who's that long haired cat in the picture? Looks like he's holding Cumpliano's book.

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Hey Guys thanks for the replies.
emathre... good eye.. yea those lines are a bit deceiving but I did manage to get the ends tucked in.I am still working on the "flow" of the build....keeping a log so I won't make mistakes twice. if possible.As I said before...I will spend more time on the jigs ...I think I am going to name this guitar "lumpy" .My plan is to sand smooth what I can and deal with the somewhat unintentional shape. Thanks for the replies emathre...keep em coming.

Howdy again Chuck...man this guitar is so far from perfect....but makes for good practice and gives me that burning desire to ..."step it up" I have already learned so much.This is my first acoustic build...but I have built a few solid bodies and a semi-hollow through the years.I assure you that if my picture taking were a bit better you would see all the "warts"...I will do my best with the next post to show them to y'all.
"Long haired cat with a Cumpliano's book"....haha ...yup that's me...before I learned the joys of the internet that was the only book I had on building...I see a lot of different ways to do things now....some make more sense for me.Now that I am a member I plan on really utalizing that "search " button.
I will post more pics soon for those that care...I got the back on late last night...

Peace....Big John

Not seeing too much wrong there!!

My first cutaway was unintentional too.....

and 90% of my builds come from wood scavenged from a shopfitter's dumpster..

Keep it up!!

_________________
My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

Thanks Martin.... I had to goggle "shopfitter" seems like a pretty cool job.....
But not as cool as Guitar Building !!!!! I think found wood and scrap wood is a great ,often unused resource.I think a lot of people think that just because they can't afford a 500 dollar back and side set that they can't build a good guitar.Don't get me wrong...I am a newb and I salivate over the beautiful woods....
but I will leave that to some of the super talented builders on this forum. Perhaps after I refine my skills a bit more.I am now looking around for some top brace wood.....I have found some nice quarter sawn pieces of pallet....seems like it should work .....if any one out there can think of a better cheep
source ...I am all ears.Keep in mind this is just for practice.... My next guitar will have more traditional woods...when I scrape together some $.
Big John

Hi John, what wood is that pallet made out of? And this is just for braces, or for the top as well? I know you say this guitar is just for practice, but you are still putting some effort and time into it, so I would advice you to get some 'proper' wood the top and braces at least. If you don't care about looks, you can get a spruce top and braces for next to nothing from a tonewood vendor, but it will still be reasonably quartered and straight and most likely a much better candidate that your pallet wood. Luckily the most important woods in the instrument are the least expensive, so seriously consider doing yourself and the guitar this favor.

(Anecdote: On the other hand, if for your pallet happens to be marked EUR and was made in Norway, it probably is genuine Norway spruce (Picea abies) our most common soft wood, and a great candidate for braces. If you don't mind a multi piece mismatched top, you could also create a reasonably quartered top from such materials... It was also probably made by convicts! )

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Howdy Arnt....pretty sure the pallet is pine....after reading a bit on it I think you are right. I might as well put good spruce in the top braces.It looks like it should be fairly inexpensive .I have a WR cedar top for old "Lumpy"...so perhaps that with some real spruce braces will....spruce it up....
I reread my post and realized I didn't mention that this is a nylon build...I think less tension on an eight string would be better for a first time build.I know...I know...it is fool hearty at best to build an untraditional unproven design your first build....but hey ...but I am too green at this to know any better.
here is a bit of progress. and some bad mistakes...as you can see ...around that tight bend my kerf didn't take well...I needed something more than close pins there....also when I was working on the little ledge to tuck in the brace I mis marked .I will tighten that up for sure.lots of mistakes and lots of lumps......learning more with each step.....I have fallen back in love with this craft....I humbly ask for more. critique...point out those mistakes y'all...that's the only way I will learn.
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk29 ... GA0063.jpg
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk29 ... GA0060.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk29 ... GA0058.jpg

Chuck!!I totally missed that funny joke you made...that long haired cat is the reason I work wood ...I thought you meant the picture of me haha...told you I was a space cadet....and here I was trying to be humble!!

John, that looks great, and I think it's really cool that you are going at it with scrap, or found wood . I salute you. I would like to add that Eric's post, which I've quoted above, is right on IME. I have built several electrics, from used parts as well as aftermarket, but never straight from scratch. And never an acoustic. I'm a rank amateur beginner, although I do have experience in set up work(for pay). As a result, I generally keep my mouth shut around here, and just soak up all the knowledge and encouragement I can. I have learned a lot. One piece of advice I'd echo is to read through the archives section. There is a wealth of knowledge there. Absolutely invaluable IMHO. I haven't decided yet whether I'll built an electric from scratch or an acoustic from an LMI kit. And I can only afford to build one this year. I think the only thing stopping me with the electric is just to buy the wood and do it. I'm pretty confident I could do the thing justice. But I know I'm not quite ready for the acoustic, yet. Therein lies the rub. I REALLY wanna build an acoustic. So, for now, I'm going to continue to lurk quietly around here, and build that guitar in my head a couple hundred more times before I put hands to wood. Good luck, and I look forward to watching your progress.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

John,

Harbor Freight sells these little clamps with flexible feet... MUCH better than clothes pins and they are cheap. Check 'em out.

Mike

Thanks for sharing John. You are on the right track - keep it up. Good idea to start with "scrap wood" - I see too many people use Cocobolo or some expensive wood on their first build, then be so scared to try anything because they are afraid of ruiniing an expensive piece of wood. Looks like you are on a good track - keep it up and keep informing us of your progress. You are always welcome here.

Welcome to the OLF!

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John Ressler

Thanks for the comments guys.....
Mike....i will look into those little clamps....great idea..thanks.
Eric....nice to hear from you...I have been lurking and learning...building in my head as well. I decided to go ahead and show my mistakes to encourage those that want to do it. I say go for it...build it!!! .i totally respect all the great builders here and I am simply not on the level they are on....yet ...but hey....this is so much fun ..It's not a contest...there are no losers. So...I hope my posts will be useful....even if it just gives people something to laugh at!
I am probably not ready for an acoustic build yet either...but ...I learn by doing and by making mistakes.
John R......thanks for the encouragement.As my skills grow I will reach for the nice wood....I just want to wrap my head around the process and even experiment a little....why not !
Now....back to searching the archives....I gotta figure out how to brace this Lumpy Beast
peace to all
Big John Sullivan

BJS buddy she is looking real good - nice job and nice recovery too!

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to tell you that I think you should buy the wood and make it from scratch. That is what I am doing here for my first build ever. I too am very intimidated by the whole thing, but I just take it slow and know that if I mess up I might just have to start over, or go back later and make it better. Since you already have plenty of experience with setting up and constructing some electrics, I think that you will really enjoy making it from scratch. You will have to keep me updated on how you do if this is what you decide to do. I would love to see how another first time scratch builder is doing.

On topic now, John, I think it is really cool that you are just constructing this guitar out of scrap. It sounds like the perfect way to get ready to build an acoustic without all the expensive wood getting in the way. I also think that the guitar looks pretty good myself. Great job.

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-Rob Eckert
Ann Arbor, Michigan

Rob....I have no problem with all discussions about building....so no worries on the hijack thing here....I figure we are all here to learn and teach....since I am a newb to all this...the only teaching I can do is to show my mistakes so others won't make em. I should have responded to Old Geez not Eric..sorry( I am relatively new to the forum thing so hang with me here...I respect you all)so anyway....
Old Geez...I am looking at those kits pretty closely now....here is why...
I resawed my back and sides and do not have a thickness sander...so I took them down(as best I could) with a hand plane....I learned a lot about planes...but would probably have been better off with pre thickness sanded sides.....it would have been so much easier and the results .....much better. I think alot of the trouble I had pipe bending these came from the fact that they were not of uniform thickness..... ..I should have taken more time on that.I am envious of your set-up knowledge..I am kind of lacking in that area...I get by....but have a lot to learn there..
That being said....there is a lot of satisfaction in scratch building....so if you wanna learn a lot from mistakes.....go "from boards to chords".... It is a heck of a lot of fun
Rob....i would love to see some pics of your first one..what a great place for learning this is..yea the more inexpensive wood has been has helped with the "intimidation" part...
I all ready want to start all over again...so many mistakes ..compound into more mistakes!!!
I do plan on really taking my time with the neck....it will be bolt on so....If the box goes...KERPLUNK!!!! at least I have a good neck to work with .
Thanks for your comment Hesh.... you shore build a purddy geeetar
Peace and respect to you all..from the newbs to the pros
Big John Sullivan

Rob, thanks for the encouragement. I've contemplated scratch building, but I don't have a thickness sander, and my budget is tight. At this point in time I'll do good to purchase the raw materials and the minimal tools and clamps I'll need just to build a kit, much less building a side bender/learning to bend.
Big John, I figured out who you were addressing in your last post. No worries. My set up skills are modest at best. There are probably guys on this forum that are miles ahead of me there, as well. I've been doing setups for about 14 years. I started out learning because I got tired of not having the cash to get my guitars set up, and having to wait to get them back. As I got better at it, other players/friends asked me to set up theirs. It's only in the last 2-3 years that I've actually gotten paid for it, and nobody's beating down my door. But it's a real kick to watch people strum their guitar and give me a big, ear splitting grin. Even though I'm pretty much self taught, I still learned a lot from Frank Ford and Bryan Kimsey's sites. They helped make me even better. It's not rocket science, you just have to be careful, pay attention, and don't touch a customer's guitar unless you know exactly what you're doing. I'm not shy about telling a customer, "I'm not comfortable/qualified to do that. Find someone who is." From what I can see, you have the personality and patience to learn anything you need to. Good luck and keep us posted.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

I worked hard on the guitar all week.(I was on stay-cation)...any way....getting close to finish time. This has been a great learning process...
I am ready for the real build now...and have a better idea of how it works....building with scrap was a good idea for me....I made plenty of mistakes..she is really lumpy....but hey...some like them lumpy. .. anyway...I said I would do it...and I did.. ..
now we will see if it explodes ...or implodes ....
I took progress pics if anyone is interested in my Hack-man-ship
next stop......lots of sanding and clean up work....oh and ....learning about finishing...
thanks to the awesome archive section here..I think I can pull it off.


thanks for looking
Big John Sullivan

That looks like a lute fretboard there, pretty wide.

If you shop around you can still build your first pretty cheap. LMI has $15.00 sitka soundboards. Saple sets are like $35.00 You could probably do it for 120.00 or s0.

Can we get a soundclip if it doesnt blow up? 8 strings will be a bit more pressure on the top, not sure if you calculated that in.

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

for a first build theres a LOT of inovation going on there!!!

fanned frets, bound soundports and 8 strings.......

REALLY looking forward to seeing and hearing it finished!!

_________________
My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

Frei...
The fret board is a bit big (but necessary for the extra strings)and makes the aesthetics really tough...next one will have a more balanced head stock shape.better balance over all...the two extra tuners makes it a bit neck heavy.
I did leave the top a bit thick and braced with an offset X that I hope will take the tension.when I get everything cleaned up and strings on it I will do the sound clip thing.
Martin...innovation....naw...just a jumble of ideas from the internet and mistakes covered...the sound port was because I dropped the thing before the top was on...it cracked good at the top bend so I cut the hole to stop the crack and put some bracing in there to keep it tight. I have to say that after putting a string on it...I like what I hear out of the little port....thats one I will keep...binding it was fun....used a hair curler.In fact....I really enjoyed the binding thing....looking forward to more of that.Like most things I have made....all i see are mistakes....but it was a good way to spend my vacation and cost me next to nothing.I have gained so much going from a full scale paper mock up to real wood...i really can see and feel the effect of design changes.
I do plan on a traditional guitar build ....i want to hear the difference in what I did here....compared to a tried and true design....
Most importantly....I had FUN...
peace to all......
big John Sullivan

How come the nut is not slanted? Is the first fret a zero fret?

Howdy Barry,
Yup, the first fret is a zero fret ...the nut will only be there to keep the strings in line.There is also a slight bevel at the treble side to keep the string breaks at a good angle.
peace to ya...
big John