Official Luthiers Forum!

This just occurred to me, the person playing my guitar in my avatar is a local fella that
just called and came by one day last summer. He has visited me several time since and I always look forward to it.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

The name on the door tends to keep the B&E and random visitors out. Heck, most people who play guitar have no idea what my business name means. I made sure not to put 'guitars' or 'CNC' under it on the sign, so it's a real mystery...which means when someone I don't know walks in the door, then they've usually got a good reason to be here (unless they have a box of 'fine' kitchen knives or 'great gifts for my wife').

Luthiers coming through is rare, but appreciated, but the ones I really need to watch out for are people from other machine shops who are all so very interested in my fixtures...

In the end, though, you just need to do the same thing you do at a guitar show: figure out if they're there to buy or there to waste your time, and react accordingly in the most diplomatic way that still gets the job done

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Grumps, I know we all like to visit....when the time is right. Of course you wouldn't want someone banging on your door right when you just slathered on a wad of hide glue. And I agree, unless it is a Close friend you wouldn't want folks you don't know hanging out. The first thing someone wants to do is touch something. Human nature I guess. Then when it breaks they say, "Oops, sorry." and out the door they go. My best friend Paul was over last week right after I glued in both end blocks. The guitar was in the mold and what did he want to do? Twist on the wing nuts holding the mold together and pick up every tool laying out. It did make my gut knot up. So I guess I know what you guys go through a little bit.
But here's what's exciting for me. If there were a Luthier that lives close, I'd of course call or stop by to see if he or she minded if I picked their brain. Man, I'd do anything if they asked. Sand the neck, sweep the floor, clean the stool, empty the trash...anything in hopes that I could learn and help. I'd help for free, even pay to hang out. I just love anything to do with guitars or fiddles.
Here's a long story.....Back in the late '80s there were two Violin Makers that I used to visit that lived within ten miles of me. P.C. Bearden was pushing 90 yrs old and was a retired missionary. He had a small shop in the back of his house then. His son now owns Bearden Violin Shopin St. Louis. Anyway, I could go over anytime of the day and he'd tell stories of his love for God, Life and Violins with a gleam in his eye.
The other feller was Jack Batts, maker of Fine Violins. There is a write-up on him in AMERICAN LUTHERIE # 10 and also in GAL's Big Red Book #1. I would also go and hang out in his shop and soak up every word. This guy was so full of knowledge on making violins. I guess what I'm saying is, those where memories and treasures that I cherish. You never know what kind of an impression you are making on someone who truely wants to listen to what you have to say and what knowledge you have stored inside. Spew it forth to the person who truely wants to learn, they'll remember you the rest of their life. These guys never said a word when I walk in. They just had a smile on their face.

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

I don't allow anyone to just hang out in the shop. Many times friends come over needing help on their guitars. I tell them how to do it or point them in the right direction then send them on their way. They are always welcome for lunch or dinner but not while I'm working. It's been said before, time is money. I let them know this up front so that they expect this. It's a bit harder to convey this to people you don't know.

I met someone recently who has an interest in guitars. We got talking lutherie and he says," If you ever need help let me know. I'm not looking for a lot of money just a little pocket change". What do you say to someone who says this to you when 1) you just met them 10 minutes ago, and 2) they have no experience in lutherie? I just say sounds good, I'll keep that in mind. The hard part about that is this person could be a potential customer or could spread the word to his firends. You don't want to insult anyone or make them feel bad. That would be bad for business and make you look like a jerk. It's best to be diplomatic, I think.

As for the people who hang out and eat up your time, want to borrow your tools, etc. Tell them in no uncertain terms what your policy is. If they're friends, they'll understand. If you're nice about it most people usually understand.

The only exception I have made has been to help a very close friend make their first guitar. We did this on the weekends over the course of a year, as my schedule permitted. I made this one exception because he saved my butt a few years ago and I wanted to do something nice for him. Although I did most of the work requiring powertools, etc. he was excited to learn and picked it up quickly. If I ever needed help in the shop, he would be glad to help out just to learn. I'd have to do something about the insurance but I know his work is good and he actually would work, not just hang out.

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Don Sharp
Got Brazilian?
http://www.sharpguitars.com

When I have had a visitor over stay their welcome farting works wonders........

Jamie my friend you can fight the toilet seat war all you wish but be advised - you WILL lose - men always do.........

When I get cold calls from people who want to come by, I tell them to phone first, partly as a courtesy, but also if they're going to make a point to come all the way to my shop, I should be here, not out running an errand. IF they come unexpectedly, I might not be here.

I also have gotten into the habit of asking them about their intentions. If they are seriously considering a purchase, I give them all the time they require. If they just want to drop by and visit a working shop, I politely let them know that I can only spare so much time, after that I'm putting them to work. This hasn't happened yet, mostly they are very considerate.

If its a person who I just want to spend some time with, too, then I suggest that they come near lunch, or at the end of the work day so that the impact of taking that time is diminished.

Its not just the 20-30 minutes that a casual visit takes out of my work day, the interruption in the work flow has a greater impact than that. Its hard getting back into the flow of the work and getting back to the level of productivity that existed prior to the interruption.

If the likelihood of regular shop visits is high, set a certain time for drop-ins, all other visits are by appointment, and get that in your promotional materials: website, phone book, business cards, etc.

Like many, I work alone and enjoy the company and the interest in my work.

Like Mario, I don't advertise locally, not do I have a shop sign. The local people are my friends and neighbours, not my clientèle. If anyone is coming over, I'm expecting them and have given them directions. If they show up anyway, perhaps they've been clever enough to find me and deserve a visit? A sign just says "Hey, I've got stuff here for you to steal!".

Ultimately, people/visitors won't take your situation seriously and treat you professionally unless you do the same to yourself. As an extension of that, its important that we each develop our own policy towards these situations. The more professional that I treat myself, and the more clearly that I convey my circumstances and expectations to visitors, the more the behave accordingly. They really do "get it".

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I used to not pay that much attention...until once in the middle of the night I sat myself down into the bowl. THAT made an impression.

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

Having a nine-year-old son who is VERY interested in everything dad is doing.... I can understand the hesitance of anyone not wanting interruptions in the shop, handling dangerously sharp tools, picking up what is fragile. But, on the other hand, I am his teacher and I take the time to help him.

Everyone's personality is different and a balance of having visitors or excluding them neeeds to be thought out in advance. In today's litigenous society, one cannot be too careful who is allowed in the shop. My mechanic is very strict about allowing people in the shop area, but he has a great waiting area with coffee and a TV. He will get downright obnoxious if I try to venture out into the shop.

In regards to what Hesh wrote, I would like to quote one of our fine OLFers: "If a man speaks but no woman is there to hear him, is he still wrong?" (Dave White, I think)

Common courtesy! Put the seat down! It also lowers the amount of F. coliform that is spread into the atmosphere from flushing! (American Inventor last season!)

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

If they don't bring beer, they don't get in.

If they do, we can go sit down on the porch, drink the beer and talk about guitars till the beer is gone. Than its time to go to bed and not back in the shop. Tomorrows another day.

Honestly, I would set hours when it's ok to come by. If this is your business, treat it as such and don't feel bad for setting some sort of time frame for people to stay too. If people what you to show them how to make a guitar, show them the general steps, don't walk through everything piece by piece, there obviously isn't time for that. Something my wife keeps reminding me of is that I can often give more detail than most people need. My guess is if you're as passionate about guitars like I and everyone else here is, you probably can talk about it and give way more detail than most people want anyway.

If someone what's you to help them make a guitar, charge them for it as you will be sacrificing other income for helping them.

Remember, you're not responsible for someone's response to you saying "no" or "I don't have time right now". This is all part of being an adult. If someone knocking at your door can't understand that you're trying to make a living and they need to come back at a different time, than I wouldn't won't them hanging around anyway. Respect is important with visitors, they need to respect what you want cause it's what you have or are doing that they are interested in. If they can't respect that, tell them to take a short walk off a high cliff.

By the way, if someone shows interest in me making guitars, I'll set the times that they can come.

Remember, this is your business, treat it as a profession and you won't go wrong.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Here is a sign that a friend of mine hangs on his wall aptly called Hourly Rates
It goes as follows:
$30 an hour if you drop it off and are patient.
$ 45 an hour if you are not patient.
$60 an hour if you tried to fix it yourself
$120 an hour if you just want to hang out while I fix the problem
$240 an hour if you want to help
Advice is Free…

The advice is always the same, drop it off and go away.

Honestly, I enjoy having people show an interest in my work but my time is vary limited these days so I am often not in my shop. When I am people aren’t aware of it and I can get a lot done.

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

I was just thinking that a corallary to all this talk about visitors to the shop concerns clients who feel that they can call or come by anytime at all, especially during off hours when its family time.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/