Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:44 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
DennisK wrote:
What about just buying some 3/16" round stock, threading one end, and bending the other to make an anchor? That's what I do with steel and it works fine.

Sounds like a plan for a single action rod.
Although on second thoughts, personal I'd probably rather have a threaded anchor.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:35 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1876
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
A set of sealed gear tuners will run between 9 and 14 ounces; open back tuners are closer to 5-6 ounces, so eschewing the typical Gotoh 510 tuners or Grover Rotomatics in favor of ebony or plastic-button open backs will likely be a weight savings well in excess of moving from the heaviest to lightest adjustable truss rod. That weight savings will occur much further out from the guitar's center of gravity in playing position, so will have significantly more impact on balance than truss rod weight reduction. If the tuner buttons are metal, a shift to wood or plastic will likely cut weight by at least an ounce or two as well.

Moving to a Norman Blake-style 12 fret-to-body neck with a meaningful cutaway will save even more weight and that weight will be removed from the nut end of the neck, further affecting balance.

Reducing fretboard thickness from 0.250" to 0.220" or so and moving from ebony or African blackwood to BRW would also save an ounce or two.

If neck weight reduction is the goal, a tapered peghead like older Gibson and Epiphones would work, as well as sealing is opaque lacquer on the face of the peghead, versus use of an overlay or plate.

Lots of ways to reduce weight besides the truss rod.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan


Last edited by Woodie G on Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:21 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 3263
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Colin North wrote:
Barry Daniels wrote:
Well, Mr. Alternative Facts, you are comparing pure grade titanium to low-grade steel. Apples and oranges there. A more fair comparison would be what is commercially available. Medium grade to medium grade, steel would come out the winner.

Colin, you seem to relish trying to dis me. What's up with that?


Barry, I am in no way trying to dis you at all and am sorry you feel that way.
it's just I like to check things out rather than accepting what people say verbatim.
Being from an engineering background, and being really curious, I really like research and facts.
Medium grade to medium grade, please point out my errors -
-
Lower grade titanium effectively is an alloy and in fact is stronger than the purer (and expensive) grades of titanium.
Just as iron is less strong than steel.
And titanium is more commonly used in alloys.
50 percent of total titanium usage the world over is Ti 6Al-4V and it is the most commenly used form of titanium.
its tensiie strength is significanty higher than pure titanium, 880 MPa as opposed to 434 MPa


Colin, I am perhaps too sensitive. Sorry if I over-reacted. I am also from an engineering background and the first thing I did was go to wikipedia and got ultimate tensile strengths for the two materials. Steel was listed as 400 to 550 MPa, whereas titanium was listed as 246 to 370 MPa. It seemed that titanium was clearly weaker, but I am sure there are other factors to consider. And the strengths for the materials used in specific truss rods is probably unknown as I have never seen a truss rod manufacturer give this level of specifications.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:40 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:16 am
Posts: 486
First name: Brian
City: U.P.
State: Michigan
Focus: Build
Ha, Excellent Woodie! I think the only thing you missed is getting rid of some of that pesky peghead wood by going slot head. I'm pretty much doing all of that.

If going light is an objective, it's a matter of shaving ounces where it doesn't affect your other must haves.

It is all a balancing act.

Brian

_________________
Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:50 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4905
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I am a martin repair center and I can tell you the truss rods on these links ARE NOT WHAT MARTIN IS USING. The ones pictured have a higher failure rate and I would never use one.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:41 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1170
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I've got to say that I'm with Woodie. Switching to titanium (at 4-6 times the cost) doesn't seem to make sense. I know as a player that I hate a neck heavy guitar, but that usually is easily fixed by not using Rotomatic Imperials. Usually it has more to do with body shape and materials.

I'm not opposed to bling on a guitar. Rather, I understand the desire for bling on other people's guitars. My own aesthetic is VERY austere. But if you aren't going to feature the rainbow colors of titanium I'm not sure I see the advantage to using it in guitar building.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:56 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2173
bluescreek wrote:
I am a martin repair center and I can tell you the truss rods on these links ARE NOT WHAT MARTIN IS USING. The ones pictured have a higher failure rate and I would never use one.



John,
I know that ,I am just trying to figure out what there new one is...
is it the same style except made out of titanium?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:48 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4905
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
some what yes

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:10 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: Taiwan
First name: Tai
Last Name: Fu
City: Taipei
Country: Taiwan
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
I'm not even sure Titanium makes good truss rod materials.

The ONLY advantage Titanium has is better corrosion resistance and has a low strength to weight ratio (nearly as strong as steel but weight half as much)

If you're in an application where weight is a serious concern, titanium is a good material to use, but I don't see how guitar necks are weight critical. Given how heavy Martin builds their guitar I don't know if a few gram weight saving makes all that much difference.

Then you got the fact that titanium, even aerospace alloys like 6Al4V is not nearly as strong as steel and threads may strip easier compared to steel, meaning the tech who adjusts it (who will not know there's a titanium rod inside) could possibly strip the threads and cause a costly repair...

You get the same weight saving using thinner rods out of a stronger alloy steel (such as Chrome Moly) and it will be almost impossible to strip out the thread on Chrome moly steel.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:45 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4905
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
agree If weight is your big concern do an ebony rod and compression fretting

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 82 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com