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| Fish Glue for Joining Top? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15398 |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:16 am ] |
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Anyone use fish glue for joining the top? -j. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:37 am ] |
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I believe Mike Collins told me he has. I was planing to test very soon. All my work with it so far would lead me to believe it no more susceptible to reasonable high humidity than titebond. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:42 am ] |
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I use it; that or hot hide glue. They work equally as far as I can tell. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:34 am ] |
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Yep, fish or HHG only choices really for joints on the top. Colin |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:35 am ] |
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HHG is faster. |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:39 am ] |
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J., I just used it for the first time on a little bowed psaltery I'm building. I used it on cedar, it works great. Do you have some of that Norlands fish glue from the CO luthiers transaction in 2005? Rick, it is only faster if you already have your HHG sitting in your pot already heated.  But if you don't have everything setup, the Fish glue is faster since you can use it at room temperature.
Tracy |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:56 am ] |
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I think that Rick was referring to the cure time of HHG but I can't be sure. FG would be excellent for jointing but I have not tried it favoring HHG. HHG has the ability to draw the two halves together too, even though you still should be clamping them, and FG or Titebond can't do this. My choices for joining plates are in this order: 1) HHG 2) FG 3) Titebond/LMI white |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:04 am ] |
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I'm certainly no expert, and I bow to Colin, Arnt, and others on this, but from what I have read, Fish Glue has exactly the same drying properties that HHG has relative to sucking the joint together. The primary difference being only the heat. They are both collagen glues, just from different sources. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:09 am ] |
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Its the Lee Valley fish glue. Its worked very well on other joints so far. My HHG skills on larger/longer joints is getting better, but my confidence with the fish glue is much much higher. I'm sure Rick was talking about cure time. I know this stuff needs to be clamped for at least 12 hours, and from what I've been told, 24 hours isn't out of the question. No ammount of heating and mixing could take that long. -j. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:14 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Hesh] HHG has the ability to draw the two halves together too, even though you still should be clamping them, and FG or Titebond can't do this.My choices for joining plates are in this order:1) HHG2) FG3) Titebond/LMI white [/QUOTE] Hesh, Fish works just the same as HHG and draws the joint together as it dries. Colin |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:22 am ] |
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OK I stand corrected. Where it came from was this series of posts that happened a couple of days ago and the thread ended, for now, after the last post. This led me to believe that the clamp effect is exclusive to HHG.  |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:23 am ] |
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Sorry that came out so small and difficult to read....... |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:24 am ] |
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I used it on a few on my test/practice tops. Lee Valley brand. It seemed easier than HHG to me at the time as it isnt as runny and applied a bit more like white. I didnt try doing a destructive test on it, but did do a bit of flexing to see how she held. My Hold Heat pot was also too hot at the time for HHG. Now that I have the temp on my pot corrected, I'll have to give HHG another shot. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:35 am ] |
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The few plates I've joined in the past few years have been with fish glue. Rub joint, no clamps, no problems on spruce, mahogany or koa that I've done. |
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| Author: | Jody [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:42 am ] |
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I an confused , one post says you need to have fish glue clamped for 12 hours and another says no clamps , obviously I am missing something ... Jody |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:57 am ] |
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It's a slow curing glue, but a very rapid initial tack. Most applications I leave clamped overnight with fish glue. A soundboard that has been perfectly joined however should be relatively stress-free. Bead of glue, rub the boards together until it grabs, and it grabs quite well. If you tried to flex it five minutes later it would probably pop right apart, but if you leave it unstressed it will be just fine. Any rub joint really has to be a perfect joint though. |
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| Author: | Jody [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:10 am ] |
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David , thanks for taking the time to eplain the difference ! Jody |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:23 am ] |
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J., I clamped mine for 1 hour, and it was just fine. I would wait at least 4 hours before flexing or scraping, but you can clamp just fine for an hour and take it out. But then again, I'm no expert, just my limited experience. Tracy |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:26 am ] |
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This draw together thing...maybe works with paper thin veneers. It's not going to fix poor jointing work or poor clamping of thick stock! |
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| Author: | David R White [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:29 am ] |
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I've used it on tops as well, cedar, redwood and spruce. |
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| Author: | Chuck Hutchison [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:18 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Hesh]Sorry that came out so small and difficult to read....... [/QUOTE] Gosh Hesh, I read it just fine!......lol
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| Author: | Chuck Hutchison [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:22 pm ] |
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I love Hot Hide Glue, I've been using it for darn near 20 years. I figure if ole Antonius chose it instead of Titebond then I'm gonna use it too. Besides, it has a half-life of forever. |
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| Author: | DP LaPlante [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:24 pm ] |
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Though fish glue was used and heartily recommended at the Romanillos course, Jose' did not prefer it over Titebond for joining spruce. He felt that the glue line was more visible with fish glue and less so with Titebond. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:37 pm ] |
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I can get virtually invisible glue lines joining tops with HHG with the sprung tape method. No clamps, no jigs, no problems, and I can just set up and glue 20 or 30 tops in a run. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:38 pm ] |
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Clamp time for fish glue varies greatly, from what I can tell. I tested some stressed joints (2 pieces of 1/4" x 1/4" spruce bent into my 15' radius form) and there is absolutely no creep several years later after as little as 15 minutes clamp time. Warm temp, 45% humidity. The 12 hours might be true for gluing to oily or non-porous wood. But spruce on spruce is quick. It's easy to do a few tests. |
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