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| Saddle Compensation http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15412 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:54 am ] |
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I have looked in my Cumpiano and Kinkead books and searched the internet (frets.com and google) for a discussion and photos for filing a saddle for compensation and I can't find anything ...Any suggestions, words of wisdom, sources of information, or photos that you'd like to share... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:48 am ] |
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The first step is dependent on if you pre cut your saddle slot or do it after the bridge is installed. For sake of instruction we will assume the slot is cut and bridge is in place. This is really called intonating the saddle as the compensation was done when the bridge was located. I start with a my saddle totally un-crowed but and 1/64 taller than I want it at finished height for proper string clearance. I then take a piece of b string and make a L shape and place one leg of the L under the string I am intonating. A high quality tuner is must for the next step. I first play the string in the open then 12th harmonic and compare. I move the L shaped be sting as needed to bring them as close as possible. Re check the tuning and compare again. Once I am confident in the match, I make a fine line pencil mark on the saddle, both side of the L shaped B string. I repeat this for each sting. this will leave me with marks to file the saddles peak to for each string. I remove the string and file just to the marks on each side of the saddle. and slightly round over the flat that is left. You will more than likely notice the marks at the b string location are well towards the back side of the saddle compared to the G and high E strings marks. You can either blend this or file a notchback to the B strings mark from the front edge of the saddle |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:53 am ] |
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by the way, I have to look tonight but I recal Cumpiamo did adress this in T&T. check the index for intonation rather than saddle compensation. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:34 am ] |
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Dur to the fact there are a couple resent topics on " setting compensation" available as current topics I assumed you were referring to how to shape the saddle's contact points for proper intonation. However I could be wrong here and you may have missed the compensation discussions. Generally we refer to compensation as the task of setting the location and tilt of the saddle in relationship to a given theoretical scale length. This is a pre intonation step that gets the saddle in position close enough to allow minor alterations in the top saddle profile during the intonation process. my first post in this topic was in reference to intonation.(final shaping of the saddle's profile). If I was assuming wrong please check out the active topics on compensation for information on how to determine proper compensation. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:06 am ] |
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Thanks Michael, I was, in fact, talking about intonation. I am using a pre-made bridge with the saddle slot already routed (compensated). The use of an "L-shaped" b string sounds like a good way to zero in on the correct intonation of each string. Thanks for the tip. I figured since I didn't get a lot of response to my post, I was obviously recognized as a newbie with an elementary question. The OLF has been a great source of information. I'm learning quickly, but I have a feeling the learning will continue for a long time... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:31 am ] |
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Na the vast majority of us actually enjoy helping newbies. Historicly that has been one of the key strong points of this forums success, the willingness to answer and help no matter how basic the question regardless to the inquisitors experiance level. I pray it always stay that way. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:41 am ] |
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Hi Steve, In one of the best books I have ever read on guitar repair by Hideo Kamimoto,he has a great section on compensation-I believe you can still get the book. Brad |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:54 am ] |
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Steve, One more thing I should have mentioned While doing the comparison, keep in mid that you are adjusting the 12 harmonic to the open note and the movement of the little tool will affect both the open and harmonic pitch. If you have a strobe type tuner or one with some way of recording variance from given tone to a second tone this is a quick and simple process. If you have a basic digital tuner, even most of the upper class digital tuners the read out accuracy is likely to be around + or - 4cent. That really is not good enough to properly intonate with. A top quality analog with a swing arm meter would be a better choice than basic digital tuner. Personally I think you need a tuner with an accuracy of at the very lest of + or - 1cent. I use a Peterson Strobe VSII it is accurate with in 1/2cent but they are in the $200 range |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:03 am ] |
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actually I stated the specs on the VSII wrong the accuracy is .1cent depending on the settings so you se most the basic digitals are not very accurate at all. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:31 am ] |
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Wow, Michael, good explanation. You also managed to boost your post count considerably.   
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:53 am ] |
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Yea but years ago I lost most of my post cout The started me at zero when the last software update came out. Thats ok I would still be behind Hesh. it don't mater that I have been here years longer.
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:40 am ] |
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I do this pretty much as Michael does, but I draw a line on both sides of the little piece of B string. (I use a high E string on the unwound strings) Because you are lifting the string a little bit (.017" or so) your intonation will be affected as you compare the 12th fret fretted note & the 12 fret harmonic. I find that filing the saddle 'till the rear line just disappears works well. The forward line will be filed off as you shape the front of the saddle. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:43 am ] |
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If you re read you will see I mark both sides as well |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:06 am ] |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:07 am ] |
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Trigger Happy! 
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. I can look at my other guitars - Martin OM 21 and Taylors (which are different from Martin, BTW).