cows and fish
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| HHG, Fish glue sources? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15629 |
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| Author: | KenH [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I know this has been talked about, and I did search the archives for "HHG Source" but came up with 1269 posts that contained the word "Source"... I am thinking of giving HHG a try and wanted to buy a small quantity of it as well as a small quantity of fish glue. I already bought one of the glue warmers and I have plenty of bottles, so all I am lacking is the glue. Can anybody point me in the right direction? |
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Fish Glue: http://www.norlandproducts.com/default.html |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
im sure there are plenty of others, but i just bought some from LMI. 192g strength high clarity. http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... +Hide+Glue |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Ken you can try, Hide glue International Luthiers Supply Bjorn Industries although I don't know if they are still in business. International Violin Company Stew Mac LMII And Shane Neifer sells it too, but I can't find it on his web site. As far as fish glue goes Lee Valley is where I bought mine, and I think it's norland fish glue anyway (could be wrong though). |
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| Author: | KenH [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Thanks for the info! I ordered some of each, so I should be good to go for now. Thanks again for the quick replies! |
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| Author: | JimWomack [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I get mine from the Olde Mill Store... 1/2 the price of LMI https://www.oldemill.com/~oldemill/store/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=5a0908722f4d5cfa27b13a187c739595&keywords=Hide+glue&osCsid=5a0908722f4d5cfa27b13a187c739595&x=0&y=0 |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I had been using hide glue for much of my work, and am trying out fish glue from Norland that Mike Collins so graciously gave to me. I recently I glued up the binding and purfling on a current build. It's got a long open time, so I slathered the channel, the full height purfling, and the binding, and THEN started to tape it up. Recommended clamp time is 12 hours though. SO, + and - here. Mike says is dies very hard, and handles much like HHG without the heat. It is water soluable, so after it dries hard, it will feel tack up under a moist finger. (as does HHG) Next, I'm glueing top braces and more binding/purfling with the fish glue. Thanks again to Mike Collins! |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Ken, You can google a german company named "Dick" they sell Islinglass glue which is supposed to be the best for our purposes. I have been told "not all fish glues are the same" or react the same. So be careful. http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/EN/Catalog/1021?action=rootcategory&PIG=NLFWINFO&PID=2008_01_stemmeisen_e I can't seem to get the page to post as I see it but here is some info [img] Genuine Isinglass Glue No. 450142 51,41 EUR (incl. VAT) 43,20 EUR (excl. VAT) 100 g. For difficult repairs requiring highest bond strengths. The glue itself consists of the untreated air bladders of Russian sturgeons. In recent years, the drastically reduced fishing quotas have made this glue increasingly difficult to attain. Animal Glues Natural animal glues consist of complex animal proteins (collagen) which must be heated in order to be used. They are made from the processed hides and bones of animals and are chemically very similar to gelatin. Animal glues have been used for over 4,000 years and are ideally suited for making strong, non-toxic bonds which are resistant to the effects of age. Animal glue bonds can also be easily reversed by reheating them, meaning objects made using animal glue are easier to restore. A Stradivarius violin made 300 years ago is still impressive in appearance and sound, partly due to the special properties of the animal glue used to hold it together. Any woodworker who is interested in preserving the natural qualities of the wood in their work should consider using animal glues. Contrary to popular belief, animal glues are relatively easy to use. The most critical factor is the glue pot itself. It must be water-jacketed to allow controlled heating and the strict maintenance of a defined temperature range (60° - 70° C) to prevent the glue from denaturing and losing bond strength. Glue should always be used the day it is first heated. Related Products Genuine Isinglass Glue Genuine Isinglass Glue Die tierischen Leime Add to shopping list Product inquiry Recommend product Book Recommendation Handbuch Möbel aufarbeiten [/img] Genuine Isinglass Glue No. 450142 51,41 EUR (incl. VAT) 43,20 EUR (excl. VAT) |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
cows and fish
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| Author: | KenH [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Hesh wrote: cows and fish Is it a full moon??? |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
It is my understanding that all HHG comes from the same place. I remember reading that there is only one manufacturer in North America... I forget who that is though... EDIT.. Here is the info. Milligan and Higgins. http://www.Milligan1868.com |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Right Brock I heard that too. So private label brands like LMI are just repackaged Gilligan and Higgins but available in quantities that make sense for us. |
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| Author: | Blain [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
Ken, I know you've already found some, but I just wanted to throw in that Woodcraft sells HHG as well. |
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| Author: | KenH [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I knew that woodcraft sells HHG, but I was unsure about the quality of it. I remember in posts that were made in the past ther was some discussion about getting the ultra pure-refined stuff, so this is what I opted for. If the stuff from woodcraft is the same stuff, it will be easier for me to get in the future. I have been using Titebond, but I am willing to try something different. Titebond has served me well, but I have an issue with the cleanup. I have found that it has a way of soaking intot he wood and not showing back up again until you put a finish on the guitar. This problem is the one reason I am willing to try something else. I like the idea of being able to clean up squeeze out and drips using a damp cloth. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I've gotten hide glue from Frank Ford and Mark Ketts. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
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| Author: | BruceHerrmann [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
HHG has been covered pretty well and I tend to agree that most of it comes from the same source ultimately. RE: fish glue, I really like the stuff I get from ECR Antique Conservation & Resgtoration in New York. It's a great glue, very nice to work with, all the properties that have been discussed, pros and cons but it's a great glue. I'm going to try it on a neck glue-up before long. I've just had problems with a one-man shop and getting things assembled quickly enough to make HHG work well for me on neck joints. I'm sure it can be done but I've not figured out a good way to do it. Seems like the fish glue would do the trick... Best Bruce |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
ToddStock wrote: There is no cost difference between 192g HC and 251 or 315, so there's not much of a reason for offering 192g as gerneral purpose, other than it seems to have reasonable working time and reasonable strength. I use 315g on bridges, but that's because it's one joint where the higher shear and tensile numbers make sense. Todd, I remember a discussion similar to this one a while back...and either Dan Erlewine, Frank Ford or Rick Turner gave a reason ( might been on another forum or media) why NOT to use full strength HHG (315). I believe that there was a down side to it (other then quicker gel time) using the 315, and that was why they/he recommended purchasing only 192-212 range? Not sure exactly but I remember something along these lines. May be Rick or Frank or Dan will chime in... |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
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| Author: | KenH [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
just out of curiosity, why isnt hide glue used for pore filling? seems like it would make an excellent pore filler and there shouldnt be any issues with final finishes not sticking to it either... One more question from someone that hasnt used it before... When you mix up a batch of hide glue, do you have to trash that batch if you let it cool down overnight or is re-warming it acceptable? Does re-heating the glue affect the strength in any way? What about keeping it warm for too long? Is there a shelf life to it? |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
My wife uses hide glue under her finishes. Gives that nice crackle effect.... 
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| Author: | jfrench [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HHG, Fish glue sources? |
I've never tried hide glue as a pore filler but it has certainly been done. Robert Bouchet used to do it, but it has been said that there is a loss of clarity in his finishes because of this approach. I'm not sure how true that is since I've never tried it and never had a Bouchet in my hands though. It would be interesting to try. |
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