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Getting Ready to Close
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15810		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Getting Ready to Close
I'm getting ready to glue the back on my guitar. Any final thoughts, before I close this sucker up? I would sure hate to find out I left out a step. I have the back reinforcement strip in, and cut out for the braces. Everything seems to fit fine. Any cautions?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
It's easier to glue the label in now.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
How do you plan to clamp? And did you install your back braces first? If so, don't forget to place props under them so that they don't deflect under the clamping pressure.......
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Just make sure your method of clamping will not allow slipping. It can rotate a little, don't ask me how I know.

But. I am sure you will get it right without problems, as you have proven it before. [clap]
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Back braces are glued into the body and sanded and I have jacks set to hold the braces while I'm gluing. All linings, braces and the heel have been sanded with a radius stick. I am going to glue with my spring go-bars.

I actually don't have a label. Guess I'll have to do that later. Surely there is a way to get one in there.
Author:  Dave White [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Waddy,

Just make sure that you can get the guitar off the solera afterwards and that anything else that has to come out will fit through the soundhole :)

Looking forward to the pics!!
Author:  David LaPlante [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Waddy, if there is any question about placing the pressure right over the linings you might consider trimming the back to the precise profile of the rims.....if there is a flange of excess material and the pressure is outboard of the rims the leverage can prevent a good join..............Fish glue? or Titebond?

Dave, right you are!! Waddy make sure your hold down bar isn't too long!

Best!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Good points. My options are Fish Glue, Titebond, or LMI White. Any preferences? LMI White and Titebond usually have a lot of squeeze-outj, fish glue, less so. I'll probably go with the Fish Glue. I like using it. I checked my bridge caul and my bar yesterday. I sanded tapers on the ends of both of them, so I could get them out. Maybe I'll clamp the back on, and test that to make sure. I do have a ledge, but it is only about 5 or 6 mm around the outside. I believe I can line the go-bars up OK. I may use some wider little cauls in some areas, to spread the load.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Fish worked great for me and I prefer it to white goo, which can do the job just as good though :)
I think you used HHG for the braces? The fish is closely related so it adds a little to the consistency of the guitar.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
I really like the consistency of Fish Glue. It doesn't run all over the place. It is sticky though. Guess I'm ready to go. Thanks for your pointers guys. I can't think of anything else. I'll post pictures of the process later.
Author:  jfrench [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Hi Waddy. Listen to David about the back being trimmed to shape beforehand, without much or any overhang etc. Especially since you're gluing the back to the braces at the same time (cool that you're doing that!). Good luck!
Author:  David LaPlante [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Fish glue will also provide you with more open time..........
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Thanks Joshua. I'll trim it down a bit before gluing it. I'll mark my brace centers on the outside of the back too so clamping will be in the right places. I can clamp the back on, mark the perimeter exactly, and trim almost to the line. That should work.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Fish! Fish! Fish! [:Y:] [:Y:] [:Y:]

I like it too. Most of my construction is done with fish glue these days.

By the way, totally unrelated, I had my first epoxy fingerboard/neck joint failure on a guitar I finished last summer. I took it back from the owner for a little extra finish tweaking when I noticed that the D and G strings buzzed when open and stopped when fretted. After verifying that the first fret action was OK, I happened to hold it up to the light at just the right angle and saw light between the fretboard and neck. !!! :o :o :o :cry: :cry: :cry: The fretboard is loose all the way up to the 7th fret. I think that this is my first self-taught example of having an epoxy joint fail due to excess pressure and squeeze out - I don't have any real reason to suspect the epoxy itself. I have had one previous example of failure on a starved back joint, but that was yellow glue.

So take care and don't overclamp your fretboard when you get to this point.
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Hey Waddy,
I like to sign and date the guitar before I close it up. I don’t have a label either. I always sign the soundboard, unfortunately someone will need a mirror to see and it will be backwards, but oh well it’s there.
Post pics.
Rich S
Author:  Billy T [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Rich S wrote:
I always sign the soundboard, unfortunately someone will need a mirror to see and it will be backwards, but oh well it’s there.


You could always use 2 mirrors!
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
I clamp my backs on using about 56 cam style clamps being very close to one
another all the way around the perimeter.

Be careful with whatever style of clamps you use that there is moderate pressure
applied and that the clamps only make contact with the outside edge of the back or
only about 1/4" in off the edge. This will eliminate the need to support bracing inside
while you clamp. Keep the clamp force where you need it.....at the edge pressing the
top down against the prepared width of the combined side and linings.

As long as you're not reaching any further in than the width of your linings and are
not using excessive clamp pressure, you run no risk of brace deflection.

One of the most common errors in clamping and gluing is the use of too much
clamp force.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Frei [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
Trimming the back all the way sounds great. I am tuning my back-plate and noticed that the largest difference was when I sawed off the litte brace overhang.
My back tunes to around F 'sharp'. removing the back trim will really effect this.

What note do you generally tune to on the free back plate?? Anyone??

Thanks!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting Ready to Close
My braces are glued in the body before attaching the back. You can see in my "Preparing and gluing the back" thread.
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