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| Cross Grain Stiffness? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15872 |
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| Author: | Frei [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cross Grain Stiffness? |
I've gotten some Adirondack 'red' spruce tops, and I'm a bit disapointed in the cross-grain stiffness. I can get a pretty good smiley face off one 7.5 inch side. Would a pic help to tell how loose this stuff is? Its not even thinned down yet, but my gut says too loose. Supposedly a repudable dealer also, (not an OLF sponsor) grrrrrrrrr ![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle")
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| Author: | grumpy [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
Don't like it? Send it back... Softest, weakest, most useless top I was ever sold was a "master" grade red spruce top. Just because the genes are good don't make it good wood... |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
Frei wrote: I've gotten some Adirondack 'red' spruce tops, and I'm a bit disapointed in the cross-grain stiffness. I can get a pretty good smiley face off one 7.5 inch side. Would a pic help to tell how loose this stuff is? Its not even thinned down yet, but my gut says too loose. Supposedly a repudable dealer also, (not an OLF sponsor) grrrrrrrrr Cross grain stiffness is not always what I seek in a top. I like a little loosness across the grain typically. I do like it stiff along the grain however but I guess there is a limit to the acceptable cross flop too. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
Is it off-quarter? Can you see bio-refraction between the two plates? If you don't send it back you can also build a smaller guitar with it (like a 0) where a little more flop can be an advantage. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
"Bio-refraction?" Please explain. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
Howard Klepper wrote: "Bio-refraction?" Please explain. Hummm… my vernacular again… On a top that has runout the difference in "light" or refraction to light that can be seen on the 2 bookmatched plates. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
ToddStock wrote: Refraction in the finish would be fairly uniform... No ToddStock wrote: are we talking about the difference in reflection of light (actually, looses due to lack of uniform reflection) due to grain runout? Yes, it is obvious in the white or with finish. Like this on a 1960 D-18. One side reflects the light in exactly the opposite pattern as the other. If I recall the top is perfectly joined between 2 grain lines and the joint should be invisible if the top didn't have any runout. It is sometimes much more obvious than this. |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
This type of refraction can sometimes ocure on a finished instrument buy the top being accidently jointed the the wrong way round as well as being cuased by run out. i.e. if you have triangle drawn on the side of the top when its cut if accidently put the top one on the bottom so the triangle is no longer alined and then open the bookmatch the grain will be in opisition resulting in a top that refracts the light in such an extreme way. also just becouse a top has run out does not mean it will not be stiff. but it will be weaker due to the shearing piont of the wood being at an angle instead of running evenly through the top. this can result in top faliure as top is weekend with the grain but it still may display good cross grain stiffness when flexed. There was an interesting descusion about mudulary rays and there relation to the stiffnes to tops in another thread and i think it was generaly agreed there that just becouse a top is so called master grade visualy does not mean it will be suitable as a top wood. i have some lower grade alpine spruce tops here that are AA grade becouse of wider grain but they are some of the nicest sounding and stiffest tops i have seen. i know that i for one am now looking at new ways of grading tops so that i can offer the most suitable tops i can for diferent purposes. I am realy interested in this subject maybe it needs a dedicated thread. joel. |
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| Author: | Frei [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cross Grain Stiffness? |
These tops were sold as OM tops,so that may be part of the issue. He also sent me one wrong top!!!grrrrr thats really floppy. I will get some more adi to compare this stuff too, but it seems looser than my cheap carpathian. Overall its a good lesson on top variation within a group from the same trees. |
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