Michael, I read all that stuff which proves there's no substitute for doing it, and maybe doing until I get it right!
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| First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15881 |
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| Author: | Likeke [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Just finished this tenor uke with French polish. At first I thought this would be faster than lacquer - not so. Its a very fussy finish. Think I go back to water based lacquer. Attachment: koauke1.jpg Attachment: koauke2.jpg
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Looks good from where I sit. Welcome to the forum. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Likeke wrote: Just finished this tenor uke with French polish. At first I thought this would be faster than lacquer - not so. Its a very fussy finish. Think I go back to water based lacquer. Attachment: koauke1.jpg Attachment: koauke2.jpg So not true!!!!! you should be able to Old world French polish and buff out that Uke in 3 maybe 4 days. Waterborne would have cost you 2 weeks minimum for proper cure time. Yes it is labor intensive but it is not at all finicky Shellac is very forgiving. Sorry you had a rough time you first time out the gate. But my guess you made it harder on yourself than the shellac did. So what seemed finicky to you? By the way It looks nice in the picture but not close enough to see flaws |
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| Author: | Likeke [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
I had troubles with my pad sticking which would pull off some finish. I guess its just experience to know just the right combination of shellac, oil and alcohol. All said and done, the finish just doesn't look as smooth as lacquer. Can I polish out with something later? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Likeke wrote: I had troubles with my pad sticking which would pull off some finish. I guess its just experience to know just the right combination of shellac, oil and alcohol. All said and done, the finish just doesn't look as smooth as lacquer. Can I polish out with something later? Yep but there is n this site alone at least 60 pages of tutelage, The proper materials and preparation of the muneca is also important in avoiding sticking. Dirty outer pad as is over used will also lead to poor shellac transfer causing sticking. I will admit there is a few things to learn before you FP with out running into some issues. but if you follow the Milburn tutorial closely most of the errors are easily avoided For future reference. sticking is most often cause buy unloaded or improperly loaded muneca, too little alcohol, oil or a dried out inter muneca. combined with a misunderstanding of how the shellac is actually laid down. If you watching your vapor trail then you know when to reload and if your too wet or too dry. |
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| Author: | Likeke [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Michael, I read all that stuff which proves there's no substitute for doing it, and maybe doing until I get it right!
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
If you decide to try again you can ask me, Colin or others of us here for help. We can usually identify where the problem is fairly quickly and save you some learning pains. I'm not sure how many years Colin has been French polishing, I know it is a long time. I have been since I was 15 and I am now 53. I can tell you once you get past the point of thinking about it as adding coats and really understand that you are amalgamating one continuous film things make more sense. Sonically and ease of repair-ability there is no better finish. Hang in there I bet you fall in love with it the next time through. |
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| Author: | Likeke [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Thanks for the offer of help Michael. I'd like it to work because I think its a better finish than lacquer for good sound and like you said repairability. 
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
What Michael says!!! I've done 4 guitars now and had it not been for Michael's patient and organized approach to answering questions and troubleshooting, I would probably have abandoned the effort. It is like riding a bicycle for me now...that easy. Your first effort actually looks pretty good. And it it's not so good, it can easily be repaired. Hang in there!!! |
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| Author: | Larry Drover [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Looks good from here but you obviously had some difficulties get the finish completed....I am just finishing up three guitars with the French Polish and I love the results....Before I tackle anything new I try and do my homework first....I got the French Polish CD by Ron Fernandez and asked a lot of questions before I started.....It can be frustrating if you want to rush it...Take your time..seal the guitar with three or four coats of primer(diluted mixture)....Seal all the pores,if any, using pomace...Don't try and put on too much polish at once....keep a constant light pressure on the pad....pressure will make the pad stick.....don't stop the pad on the surface ,it will stick.....I am looking foreward to doing the next one....hope it works better for you.I think it worth the extra work......Larry |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Guys, should the surface be absolutely smooth like a lacquer finish? Mines seems a bit nubbly looking at it in the light a certain way. Maybe I was trying to put too much on at a time? I used 2 lb cut most of the time and 1 lb cut the last couple of sessions. Can it be smoothed out? Thanks |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
I often see newbies to FP thinking that the majority of the shellac being laid down is coming from the freshly loaded shellac recently applied to the muneca. The truth is the combination of the newly added shellac and alcohol are quickly absorbed into the inner muneca and melt the residual shellac in the inner muneca and this is what is being laid down. What the fresh load to the muneca is actually doing is keeping the residual shellac in the inner muneca at the proper viscosity to transfer to the body. That is why you tap the muneca after a fresh load to get the spotted disbursement on the back of your hand or white paper. Eliminating the excess new shellac on the surface of the muneca. If you start to think that the newly added shellac is what is being laid down then you tend to over load and lay down a wet mess that will congeal on the surface of the muneca and cause sticking. I am not saying this is what you were doing wrong, just this is very common error for a first timer. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
MichaelP wrote: If you decide to try again you can ask me, Colin or others of us here for help. We can usually identify where the problem is fairly quickly and save you some learning pains. I'm not sure how many years Colin has been French polishing, I know it is a long time. I have been since I was 15 and I am now 53. I can tell you once you get past the point of thinking about it as adding coats and really understand that you are amalgamating one continuous film things make more sense. Sonically and ease of repair-ability there is no better finish. Hang in there I bet you fall in love with it the next time through. Exactly as Michael says, to me French polishing is not only the most satisfying finish to apply, being more hands on, but once the principles are understood, it becomes almost intuitive. However, like all good things has to be worked for. As Michael said there is plenty of good material in the archives here and the Milburn tutorial is well worth looking at. Work in a methodical manner, and the finish almost applies itself. And, you end up with a superb finish that truly enhances the beauty of the wood. Any specific problems, ask here and someone with experience (usually our main guru Michael) will be along to answer it. Colin |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Colin S wrote: MichaelP wrote: If you decide to try again you can ask me, Colin or others of us here for help. We can usually identify where the problem is fairly quickly and save you some learning pains. I'm not sure how many years Colin has been French polishing, I know it is a long time. I have been since I was 15 and I am now 53. I can tell you once you get past the point of thinking about it as adding coats and really understand that you are amalgamating one continuous film things make more sense. Sonically and ease of repair-ability there is no better finish. Hang in there I bet you fall in love with it the next time through. Exactly as Michael says, to me French polishing is not only the most satisfying finish to apply, being more hands on, but once the principles are understood, it becomes almost intuitive. However, like all good things has to be worked for. As Michael said there is plenty of good material in the archives here and the Milburn tutorial is well worth looking at. Work in a methodical manner, and the finish almost applies itself. And, you end up with a superb finish that truly enhances the beauty of the wood. Any specific problems, ask here and someone with experience (usually our main guru Michael) will be along to answer it. Colin Guru = Some one who Generates Unending Replies Unnecessarily  
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| Author: | burbank [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Disclaimer: I've only done two guitars with French polish. My AHA! moment came when it all started working and I realized that the bodying steps are sort of like putting on the old-style waxy Kiwi shoe polish, buffing excepted. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
burbank wrote: Disclaimer: I've only done two guitars with French polish. My AHA! moment came when it all started working and I realized that the bodying steps are sort of like putting on the old-style waxy Kiwi shoe polish, buffing excepted. To a large degree BINGO |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Ricardo wrote: Guys, should the surface be absolutely smooth like a lacquer finish? Mines seems a bit nubbly looking at it in the light a certain way. Maybe I was trying to put too much on at a time? I used 2 lb cut most of the time and 1 lb cut the last couple of sessions. Can it be smoothed out? Thanks With practice smother  Once you get it, as in inner workings of the whole process and the feel for the shellac you will never need to level with an abrasive and lay down a smooth film like it was nothing. It will not look dead perfect after every body session but if you spirit off properly after Evey session it will. It takes the whole of the process not one step. Boding lays down the base, Spiriting off levels the new body session out.
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
I used to do a really mean "spit shine". Is that similar? Fortunately, I have not had to do that for a long time though. Maybe when I FP my guitar, it'll bring back memories. Ugh! 
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| Author: | Guest [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Hey Waddy, when I was in Air Cadets (Canada) I used to put down a Kiwi shine on my boots that you could see your face in. Guess I need to dust of the technique and apply it to shellac.
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Whoops? the last post was mine. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Yeah, I can remember spending a couple of hours getting a pair of boots to shine like glass. |
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| Author: | Philip Perdue [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
likeke, Don't ever use French Polish again! Look what happened it shunk your guitar. The finish looks very good. Did you try spiriting off the finish like Michael said. That may solve all your problems. By the way thats another nice ukulele. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Philip |
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| Author: | Philip Perdue [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
likeke, Don't ever use French Polish again! Look what happened it shunk your guitar. The finish looks very good. Did you try spiriting off the finish like Michael said. That may solve all your problems. By the way thats another nice ukulele. Philip |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Attempt at French Polish - yuk! |
Konacat, I definitely could improve my spiriting off technique. I put alcohol on my pad and tried spiriting but it seem to etch the finish. I had expected it to sort of glaze my finish. |
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