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Step One
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Author:  Colleen2 [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Step One
Can anyone point me towards any threads on Building, The Absolute Step One?
I have Nooo Idea where to even start looking on here via search.
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Your HUBBY! Didn't he spend some time teaching with Mr DeJonge?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Colleen, here is a link to a steel string construction tutorial on the internet. http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/luthierie/guitarmaking_guide/building_flattop.html

It is on the Drexel University website. It has good pictures and some decent explanations of what's going on. I'm sure there are other sites. Many of our members have websites that show the building of one of their guitars, but may or may not explain the process. Mario Proulx has some good pictures on his site http://www.proulxguitars.com/construction.htm
I know there are many other places, but I had these links in my guitar construction sites folder. The other thing would be to find a good book on the subject.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
let me suggest you pic up a copy "Tradition and Technology" by Willam Cumpiano. If you like and will send me your address via PM I will donate a well used copy. I resently bought a new copy so I have two.
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Colleen, please forgive my lack of help, struggling with the flu, not thinking straight. Great stuff above. Here's a couple more ideas....

http://www.hoffmanguitars.com/building_a_guitar.htm
http://pweb.jps.net/~kmatsu/

BTW, I like what you guys are doing with spoons/spatulas. It' pretty creative and good use of extra wood! Hope the baby doesn't have any more problems....
Author:  KenH [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
the first few steps go like this:

1.decide what kind of guitar you are going to build

2. decide what back and side wood you are going to use and buy the appropriate size B&S wood blanks.

3. Surface the B&S down to working thickness, leaving it about .02 oversize.

4. Join the 2 back plates.

5. draw out the guitar shape on the dry and joined back plate and then cut it out leaving approx 1/4" outside of the line.

6. sufrace sand the back plates to working thickness.

7. cut out bracing, keeping the brace material vertical grained.

8. install back strap on back plate, keeping it centered on the joint line.

9. sand down the back strap to leave a slightly oval "hump" in the center with the outer edges thinned.

10. carve radius on the brace stock.

11. cut out slots in the back strap to match the width of the brace. *note* there is a method to doing this so that no gap is left.

12. glue to back braces in place keeping them square to the center line of the back plate. Start in the center of the brace with clamps or gobars and work your way outward.

13. shape braces to suit your tastes and sand them smooth.

*13a. the back should be ready to glue to the sides at this point.

14. cut sides to pattern.

15. surface sand the side plates to working thickness and bend them to match pattern.

16. place sides in mold and cut the ends so that each end is centered, tight, and even.

17. join the side plates using neck block and heel block. Clamp in place and let dry for 12 hours.

18. install waist clamp to keep the waist pressed against the side of the mold. an upper bout removable brace and a lower bout removable brace may be needed.



There are some details that I am leaving out, but this will keep you busy for a while....
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Duck Soup! All in one post. I'm sure you can figure out the minor details Ken left out, but he's right. Those are the steps to building a guitar, a steel string, anyway. Classicals are similar, but take a route through a different set of steps, though most of the big ones are the same in most respects. Just different methods of achieving a goal.
Author:  Mitch Cain [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Hi Colleen -
If you want hours of educational enjoyment in front of the DVD player, I'd also suggest you pick up John Mayes DVD series on building a guitar, and/or Robbie O'Brien's DVD. You can get John's on ebay, or by PM'ing him from the forum, and Robbie's is available from LMI. They are both excellent tutorials, and give you a ton of great information, as well as getting to see how the pros build them.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
The most basic question is why? The answers provided to you are only as useful as they come close to the intention of your question. All those good answers provided above are assuming that you are intending to build a guitar for yourself. But that is not clear from your question. ;)

I wold offer that the absolute step one is to actually make up your mind to DO this project, not just wish to do it.

Step two is to cast your attention around to get a sense of what kind of guitar you want to end up with. There are some many options available that it can make your head spin, and you can get paralyzed under the Tyranny of Opportunity.

Step three, develop a personal design language.

Steps two and three can be done while you educate yourself about the building process. Step one must be done before anything else.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Colleen for me step one would be making the decision as to if I want to start with one of the very fine kits that are available or from scratch. I started with a couple kits and was glad that I did.

If you go the kit route they very often come with instructional materials that are somewhat specific to how that kit is to be constructed. On Stew-Mac's site for example the PDF files for the instructions for their d*eadnought kit are available free for down load. You might want to check that out.

With an LMI kit comes Robbie O'Brien's excellent "Build a Steel String Guitar" DVD. With Martin kits you get a pamphlet that is as valuable IMHO as drinking paddy water......... And with John Hall's very fine kits, Blues Creek - link above, you get John on stand by to guide you through the process where you may need some assistance. How John gets himself in every box beats me....... :D

The Cumpiano book although a monumental achievement in it's day I am not the biggest fan of the thing these days and believe that there are better instructional materials out there now particularilly in DVD format. Frank Finichio has an excellent multi-disk DVD available that is superb in all respects and mirrors his hands on course that he offers as well. This is available from Stew-Mac as well but a bit pricey.

With some of the kits, LMI and Blues Creek, you can select your woods as well and personalize your guitar.

And there are other sites on the net specifically for building kit guitars that may be more helpful in focused content but never in the willingness to help then this site.

And lastly but important - many members who join here may spend a great deal of time preparing a shop/work space. Once they have made the decision to build they often spend a great deal of time jigging up and acquiring appropriate and sometimes inappropriate tools for guitar building. If you have the shop already, and I am betting that you do, this will not be an issue for you.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Hi Colleen, Its good to see more female builders on the OLF. I think
Kathy Matsushitas' site would be good for you to check. She has
a lot of good tips and jigs.
I see Terry posted a link to her site .....http://pweb.jps.net/~kmatsu/
Author:  Sam Price [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
I totally agree with Hesh here. Although the aforementioned gentleman needs to remember that if you don't want to built a Stewmac D***dn****t, there is also the Stewmac 000 size guitar kit available too.

A kit is a great way to get started.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
I'm going to make another suggestion. See if you can find a copy of Irving Sloane's books on guitar construction and repair. There are several - "Classic Guitar Construction", "Steel String Guitar Construction", "Guitar Repair", "Making Musical Instruments". All will agree that some of his methods are somewhat dated, but he was a really good writer, and his books are easy to read, easy to follow, and for the most part, follow pretty good methods. What they do do, is give a great introduction to the basics of an instrument, what all the parts are, how they go together, his method of side bending(not recommended by today's masters), some pretty good tricks and ideas, and how to make certain jigs and fixtures, which you probably won't need? Most of his books are available in used condition from http://www.abebooks.com or http://www.alibris.com for prices in the $4.00 to $15.00 range. The exception is "Steel String Guitar Construction", which seems to be more popular and the prices fall in the $25 - 50 range. You could probably find it at the library, for reading purposes.

I learned a ton from reading Sloane's books; they are simply written, reasonably short and don't contain a lot of fluff and extraneous detail. It prepared me for learning other more specific details, and understanding why one method might be better than another. I learned enough through reading, that none of the steps I have been through, so far, have seemed strange to me. New hands-on procedures, but I understand why I'm doing all of it. Lots of reading. The "Tradition and Technology" book is also well written, but if you only have interest in steel string construction, or classical construction, it is hard to keep them separated. If you are interested in the total of construction, it is pretty good.

Just another $.02 worth.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
There are at least a dozen fine construction books out there. Each ave variances in their methods. In the beginning It really does not matter which you decide to follow. As you learn you will be continuously expanding your knowledge base and will likely pick up at least 3 or four these publications. I recommended T&T solely for it ease in following and simple explanations of the various tasks.

I too do recommend a kit a great starting point. in particularly if you are not set up with the majority of basic lutherie tools yet. If I was to recommend one kit over an other I would likely recommend one from John Hall for the, quality of the product, ability to spec desired woods and the personal technical assistance he gives very freely.

It really Helps to have gone through the assembly and joinery once or more before you jump in to a scratch build. There are lots of things you would learn by doing so that will aid you in working the raw materials when you do jump in to scratch building.

Colleen we are all glad to have you with us and look forward to seeing your work and helping where we can.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Sergei de Jonge was mentioned. His month-long guitar building course is excellent (if I were allowed to use a certain word that starts with the 6th letter of the alphabet, I would have added that before "excellent" for emphasis; that is to say, Sergei's course is really really REALLY excellent). It is also very reasonably priced. I know, it's hard to plan to do something like that - taking a month away and all - when you have young children. It was hard for my family, but we pulled it off, and it was worth it beyond words. I brought my wife and one child (this was before our younger daughter was born) along for much of the time, and Sergei's wonderful family put up with all of us.

Most of the class participants had no guitar building experience and very little if any woodworking experience. Sergei managed to guide everybody through the process and everyone came out with respectable guitars and a tremendous amount learned (again, insert that word before "tremendous").

So, Step One: google Sergei de Jonge and sign up for his course. IMHO, you will learn more than you likely would over several years of working on your own, even with the help of books, videos, and the fine folks on this forum.

One more comment: (diplomatically stated, I hope...) If you get John Mayes' DVDs, be prepared to spend a LOT of time watching him be goofy and explain/demonstrate things in a very lengthy, verbose style. A lot of people here seem to love his videos, and there is a lot of good info in them. For me, time is precious, and I found his style intolerably inefficient. I'm not tryng to trash John or his videos, really, just offering my perspective as a heads up. Robbie O'Brien's videos are packed with info and are succinct, while still thorough. Other books and videos are excellent as well.

Cumpiano and Natelson's book is excellent for many reasons, one of them being that they go to lengths to educate you on a lot of basic concepts that underlie the design and construction of guitars. There's a lot there, as well as in other sources, that will give you a foundation for beginning that I'm afraid a lot of people skip over. Other books and sources on the nature of wood and basics of woodworking, as well as the science of acoustics, are also, IMO, essential for laying that foundation.
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Hi Todd, good advise! According to the Kett's website, "Mark's professional woodworking expertise lies as a noted Luthier, in the field of Guitar Making. Mark studied with the DeJonge School of Luthiere, completing a 3 yr apprenticeship and continued to serve as course instructor."

WOW! What a great opportunity! I'd think having a resident expert in the house would be optimal. But I digress. The question needs to be brought up periodically, as there are always new lurkers around that will benefit from the question.

Colleen, I have a question for you.... Would Mark take you on as an apprentice? That'd be cool. Or are you trying to surprise him with your own handmade guitar? That would take some work to hide that one eh? ;)

Whatever you're endeaver is, this place should meet your needs. Bless ya!
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Wait a minute... Colleen's hubby is Mark Kett? Well, that changes everything. "Google Sergei de Jonge," said I, like a babbling idiot.

So, then, Colleen Kett, I'm a bit puzzled by your original question... Steps One through 10,000 are sleeping in bed next to you! Have we all misunderstood what it is you're asking?

BTW, my family and I had the pleasure of meeting Mark at the de Jonge's. Funny, our moment of first meeting: he woke us all up in our tent, stumbling around in the woods late at night looking for his own tent. In spite of this, I liked him immediately.
Author:  John Mayes [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
I say forget the DVD's, books, schools, and just dive in.

build, fail, build, fail a little less, build, fail, build, learn, build, build, build. You'll learn more this way than from any class, DVD or book. It will, however, most likely take you considerably longer to get "up to speed", but the journey is more rewarding imo.

Most would probably disagree with me though, but what the heck I'm "intolerably inefficient" anyway :mrgreen:
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Separate shops might be good! :D [headinwall] [uncle]
Author:  John Mayes [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
ToddStock wrote:
I think you need some sort of framework, if nothing else to make sure the fretboard gets tapered before it get fretted. Plunging in without any guidance seems like an interesting, challenging, albeit frustrating tactic, but I doubt it will work for most people. ...



Sure get a plan/blueprint. Then plunge in. Any craftsman worth their salt should be able to at least start here. Your results may not be as polished as someone who gets a kit, but I bet you'll learn a heck of a lot more.

Not that there is anything wrong with building from a kit, or DVD's or books, I just think you'd learn a lot more the other way. I know I learn from doing more than hearing/seeing. But I realize everyone learns differently. But the op did ask for our opinion.....so there is mine.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Colleen,

Speaking as a seasoned woodworker but newbie luthier myself, from my recent experience I would say that just taking the plunge blind is no way to go at all. You really do need to read everything about guitar making you can possibly lay your hands on (and talk to hubby, of course) before you decide what it is you are going to build and exactly how you are going to accomplish each step along the way. I'm a very visual learner, so for me, the books with lots of color pictures were the most help (e.g. Kinkead) as far as written materials go. Far better though, were the instructional DVD's - well worth the investment IMO.

John Mayes (who posted right before me - Hi John!) has a fine 12-DVD set that covers the building of a guitar from scratch. I'm using his DVD's as my master reference currently for my first build (which is working out great so far, thanks John! [:Y:] 8-) ). Most of the other DVD's I purchased had crucial steps that were glossed over, or even just plain ommitted, leaving me high and dry (e.g. a finished neck and end block must be purchased in order to follow the Frank Finoccio DVD's). John Mayes' DVD's were the most thorough by far IMO. He just about covers everything you need to know - but even he has a few steps where his coverage could be improved (he assumes a bit of prior woodworking knowledge).

HTH,
Dave F.
Author:  Colleen2 [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Wow............theres sooo many of you to qute, I cannot even begin. Although I gotta say I laughed literally out loud a couple of time.

RE: Mark Kett: yes he does sleep next to me hhehehe. So as for googling Sergei DeJonge...
Now....I can say yes: I KNOW I am in PRIME to learn, but I am quickly beginning to learn that you all are such a powerful resource. And as I am taking over Management of all things that are built by Mark Kett, I wanna look out the window at all y'all others to see another viewpoint before I shackle myself into his but uner my direction HAHAHA. (apprenticing HIM a little you might say)

There were ALOT of resources that I deffo will wanna look into. We also have a student that may come to work with us shortly once we get up and running nice and strong again. So it would be nice to have some of these things beyond my own use!

I really really appreicate you all indulging me in the more affective side of building. THATS where I can identify with. Discovering my Intention.

I know Mark would be so chuffed if I asked him to help me build. The other night, after reading the forums, I asked him to help me learn to play a song. So that I think...thats where I will start. I will find my song.

Now, Todd Rose...Mark was stumbling towards his tent eh? Perhaps I was THERE?!?!?! Up Ramsey Road? This year or 2 yrs ago?
Author:  burbank [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
John Mayes wrote:
......Most would probably disagree with me though, but what the heck I'm "intolerably inefficient" anyway :mrgreen:


Maybe so, but dayum, John, you sure do make some nice guitars! Or so I hear. DVDs aren't too shabby either!

So now, Colleen, comes the hard part, deciding just which pieces of all this great advice you're going to take, since you can't follow them all.

I'd say if you're a risk-taker, a dive right in kind of person, do as John Mayes said. If you're more methodical, then study everything you can get your hands on, then pick and choose.
Author:  John Mayes [ Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
burbank wrote:
I'd say if you're a risk-taker, a dive right in kind of person, do as John Mayes said. If you're more methodical, then study everything you can get your hands on, then pick and choose.



I can agree with that advice.... Not that anyone cares what I agree with though :roll:
Author:  BeautifulWeapons [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Step One
Hi everyone,

Lots of good advice here... For Colleen and anyone else who finds this thread looking for how to start building guitars, I think it might be helpful to think about what you want out of the experience:

    - Are you approaching it just as a woodworking project?
    - Do you want to make a living at it?
    - Do you have aspirations toward making a substantive contribution to the craft?

There are all kinds of reasons to go out to the shed and try to hack together a playable instrument. Figuring out what your goals are, even knowing that they're likely to change as you learn, is a good way to help guide your decisions.

I'll also add my voice to the formal training chorus: spending time with master luthiers, especially in their shops, is well worth the effort. I just got back from Charles Fox's five-day contemporary guitar making seminar, and I had a similar reaction to Todd's with regards to de Jonge's month-long course. Charles has been at it for 40 years, and seeing and hearing that cumulative experience and skill demonstrated firsthand is just invaluable. Eye-opening, inspirational, and most of all practical - the information on small shop layout alone is worth the price of the seminar, at least to me. I'll be happy to go into more detail about the course if anyone's interested, but suffice it to say I nearly filled a Moleskine pad with scribbles and notes, and I didn't come close to getting it all down.

If I may presume to condense the gathered advice so far:

    1) Books and DVDs are cheaper than tools.
    I'd read Cumpiano's Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology. Even though it describes very traditional methods (read: a little outdated), it's very complete, and a good primer. Supplement with books and DVDs recommended here as interest and budget allow.

    2) Build a kit, or a simple first guitar, with the minimum investment you can manage.
    As others have mentioned, you'll learn a lot by doing, and you'll have real-world questions for step 3.

    3) Seek out experienced luthiers and visit their shops if you can.
    You can take a course like Charles' or Sergei's, join the Guild of American Luthiers and go to the convention, or just make friends with an established luthier in your area. Whatever you do, you'll reduce your learning curve by watching and listening to people who have already solved the problems you're having.

    4) Keep building.

Best of luck!

-- Dave
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