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professionals?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16016		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Andy [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  professionals?
are ne of u professional luthiers? i mean do any of you guys build and sell guitars for a living? if so could u give me some insight into what the life of a luthier is like. (time involved, money spent/earned, etc.)

Thanks,
Andy
Author:  ChuckH [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
This should be an interesting thread.....................Looking forward to this one!
Good question Andy!!!
Author:  Evan Gluck [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Hi Andy,
I repair for a living in NYC. Does this count?
Best, Evan
Author:  Andy [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
hey chuck im looking forward to it to. but evan i mean ppl who strictly build and sell their guitars, not repairs or the occasional weekend seminars, just full blown, hardcore luthiers.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
We have a lot of professional builders on OLF. We have had some other threads of similar nature in the last year. Check through the archives in addition to what you get here. I can't, off hand, tell you what to search for, but I know they are there.

One other thing, and please don't take this in a negative light, but some folks prefer full words to instant message short cuts. This is not a text messaging forum, and a lot of that kind of stuff gets old real fast. Again, not a personal criticism, just a pointer to get along on the forum.
Author:  ChuckH [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Way to go Waddy.....spank him right off the bat.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Andy, you may have insulted a lot of the "Full Blown Luthier's" who strictly do repair work. Honestly, I call the repair guys more qualified as a luthier versus anyone who can build a guitar.

There are folks here who do build as their sole means of income (And yes some of them would be considered a luthier) and if that's the limit to your question they should be able to help you.
Author:  KenH [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
I build for a living.

As far as time involved, I spend at least 80 hours a week in the shop and another 12 hours a week or so on here talking and learning from others. There are always things to learn and I am deeply interested in how others do things.

Money... heh. I just invested over $2,500.00 this week alone in dust collection equipment. I have enough wood to build about 100 guitars right now, and I am always buying more. I dont have a clue how much I have invested in this, but it is substancial. Power tools, probably around 10 grand and another few thousand on hand tools. I have more jigs to do things than you can immagine and I am always building a jig to do something new. The materials for the jigs cost something, but the time invested in building them adds up too.

I dont do this for the money. I do this because I absolutely, positively love it. I want to build guitars that will make music for generations after I am gone from this world. I want to bring smiles to the faces of those that get a chance to play one of my instruments. I want to make a difference.

oh yeah, I am working in a 2 1/2 car garage that I converted to an insulated workshop. It isnt big enough so I am in the proces of trying to build a bigger shop. By the time that is completed, you can look at another 50 to 80 thousand. It adds up in a hurry.

I agree about not leaving out the repair guys. I learn tons of building information from them and would be lost without their input. They are the guys that can tell you what will work and what wont when it comes to building instruments. They invest their lives trying to straighten out problems with instruments. They are the true luthiers.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Wow Ken, I'd love your work space (size that is). At 185 sft, my shop could easily fit inside your's a couple of times over :lol:
Author:  Doug-Guitar-Buckler [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Thanks Ken! You just made this repair-guys night!
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
I guess I fall in the hardcore category, although I build in my "retirement" years. My shop, equipment, wood supplies, etc etc are the results of 40 years of "wood butchering" including building a couple homes, finish carpentry, luthery, and an assortment of other activities that have all contributed knowledge and experience I no call on. I have built up to 20 instruments a year, but that was when I was "young and crazy". ;) Nowadays I shoot for about a half dozen a year. My lifetime total is nearing 150 instruments.
As with a few others here, I do it for the love of the instrument and for the joy it gives those who play my instruments. My pricing keeps the finished product more affordable for a larger number of folks and there are the occassional freebies/special deals built for
some well deserving folks. Sort of like a "tithe or offering", you might say.

What do I have invested? Hard to tell. But it is well insured, although I dread the thought of having to go out and replace it all if a catastrophe occurred. :cry:
I have probably more wood than I can ever build with, but that's an "addiction" many of us fall into.

If you search the Archives here, you will find many threads with suggestions/experiences/how to's that are valuable reading. If you can't get an answer to a question there, then bring it to the Forum.
And rememeber that there are many ways to "skin the cat" in luthery.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
ChuckH wrote:
Way to go Waddy.....spank him right off the bat.


I was trying to be nice. The last person who was prone to a lot of short cuts, was soundly criticized here, not by me. I was trying to give a "heads-up", before it came in a more direct form. [uncle]
Author:  grumpy [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
I say spank 'em early... [:Y:]

I'm lost... [uncle] I build and repair for a living.
Author:  ChuckH [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Ur rite Waddy y Grumps, I have a 16 yr old boy that sends me txt msgs & I dnt even no wat he's saying 1/2 da X.
Anyway, I guess I was being a smart @ss when I replied 2 u so don't trip. :P

I think the boy is really trying to figure out if he'd like to build guitar's for a living and doen't realize that the two can go hand in hand. I remember Rick Turner stating once that a person should work in the trenches repairing b4 building his or her first guitar. Luthier, according to Wikipedia means, "Someone who Makes or Repairs stringed instrument." Us'ns that 4got what it was like being seventeen years old tend to not have patience with youngsters and feel we should whip them in to submission.

Could be 2 tht these threads get bogged down and taken off subject when someone replies to a thread just to be saying something when it doesn't apply to them.

With that said, I'll log-off........
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
I take exception to the suggestion that it's a symptom of youth...I had to give my mom a stern talking-to when she started using that sort of abbreviated gibberish on instant messenger! :|
Author:  Rick Turner [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
To anyone who asks such a question in such a manner as that I say "No, I don't make a living at it...never have and never will."

Bulls..t begets bulls..t. Laziness in writing and posting will beget lies and disinformation...

Shortcuts in communication presage shortcuts in learning and doing...

And yes, I'm proud to be an a...hole sometimes, and I'd type it if they'd let me.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Andy wrote:
but evan i mean ppl who strictly build and sell their guitars, not repairs or the occasional weekend seminars, just full blown, hardcore luthiers.


I'll chime in here as well to say that a guy like Evan is most definitely a full blown, hardcore luthier. I am studying/doing repair along with building in my process of becoming a full blown, hardcore, professional luthier, and I have to say I stand in awe of the excellent repair/restoration people out there whose work inspires, motivates, and educates me no end. The skills and creativity required in that pursuit are formidable (arguably far greater than what's required to build guitars), and every bit as vital (or moreso) to the field of lutherie.

I'll also chime in with a request that people avoid using abbreviated writing. I don't know what half the stuff means (though I'll admit to writing IMHO a few times, after I finally figured out what that one means), and I find stuff like "b4" and "u" just irritating - easier to write, maybe, but much harder to read.
Author:  Whoodie [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
I'm sure there's a few of us industrial folks online as well..

:lol:
Author:  Evan Gluck [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Thanks Todd for the kind words, actually I never cared if I was a luthier or not. I support my family
by working on guitars for thousands of people so I never had the time to put a name on it.
Frank Ford had a funny anecdote about how he described his job when he met his wife that he posted on another
forum. He said "I fix broken guitars". My wife did not even know that people fixed guitars when we met.
Now she can do a great impression of me when I am telling a client he has too much relief in his neck :D
Best, Evan
Author:  LanceK [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Rick Turner wrote:
and I'd type it if they'd let me.


Thanks Rick! ;)
Author:  rjcguitar [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Andy wrote:
are ne of u professional luthiers? i mean do any of you guys build and sell guitars for a living? if so could u give me some insight into what the life of a luthier is like. (time involved, money spent/earned, etc.)

Thanks,
Andy


Hi Andy,

I do repairs full time as my own business, I have built 2 guitars from scratch (1 custom carved top Tele solid body and a Dreadnought acoustic) but I am NOT going to sell those! as I use the electric as my main guitar while performing. My goal is to start building and yes, selling. But as we all know it takes a big investment for the right tools and materials to start. I have everything to build a solid body but not an acoustic yet (thickness sander-dish0go bar deck etc..) I abosolutley LOVE repairing and restoring and giving instruments a second chance at life! and the best reward is watching the customers reaction when finished! I need to work on my "business plan" part of charging the correct price as I love doing it so much and i don't seem to charge enough!! but that will come. I just had my first year anniversary of doing this full time! and at 41 years old I KICK myself for not doing this 20 years ago!!! but being in a band and working on guitars I 'feel" like i'm still 25 !!!
I realized (late) that life is too short to be working a job that you are not completly happy with and this is now the happiest time in my life, doing what I love!!!!!

Good luck to you!!

-Rick
Author:  David LaPlante [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
As far as the text message language stuff, I have to say that it is difficult enough describing (as we so often do here...) many of the three dimensional operations in guitarmaking using the best resources of the english language.
The text message jargon (besides annoying to us geezers) is simply not useful here.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Gotcha, Evan. I don't care whether anybody ever calls me a luthier or not, either, no matter how accomplished I become in the field of guitar design, building, and/or repair. My point was just that there's nothing any less "full blown" or "hardcore" about being a specialist in repair as compared to being a specialist in building. If anything, perhaps the opposite has some truth to it.

None of this is to say that I don't also hold the great designers and builders, including those who don't have extensive repair resumes, in very high esteem as well, because I do.
Author:  Erik Hauri [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
Andy wrote:
if so could u give me some insight into what the life of a luthier is like. (time involved, money spent/earned, etc.)


A leisure class exists at both ends of the economic spectrum. [:Y:]
Author:  Michael Jin [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: professionals?
This is also something I've been wondering about and I would agree that repairmen certainly do not fall short in terms of knowledge and skill to builders, they just happen to specialize in different aspects of the craft. God knows I've argued the viability of making a living as a luthier with my mother (I still do on a daily basis as I try to pursue the craft...) It encourages me whenever I hear about people that are thriving as professional luthiers, be it builder, repairman, or both. I must say, however, I'm just starting out and my experience has been sort've rocky... So much to take in and learn. Hopefully one day I'll be able to encourage others to follow their dreams, though. XD

BTW, Evan, how's the shoulder doing? I would REALLY love to check out your shop and take a lesson or two from you. =)
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