Official Luthiers Forum!

Is there any info about designs of bracing on soundboards one can get their paws on that will tell how to get a specific sound? The info I have more less states do it like this. Would really like to get educated in the physics of the process. Does anyone have advice on what works well for them? Thanks to all.

_________________
Thanks To All:
Lee
Sikeston,Mo.

This is one of "those" questions that is so subjective that I doubt that you will ever get a true answer, even from someone that is trying to tell you the truth. designing braces depends so much on the stiffness of the top, the type of wood being used, the material of the brace, the cycle of the moon, you name it.

I have my own system of shaping braces that generally produces a sound that I am quite happy with. It took me a bunch of guitars to be able to get to the point that I can reproduce the sound I want and even if I told you how and why I did it, you probably wouldnt understand what I am telling you. I am really not trying to be difficult about my answers, but really trying to give you an honest opinion.

Your best bet is to look at sites like frets.com, the GAL site and then get your hands on as many blueprints of guitars as you can, especially the ones that you like the sound of. Martin is quite open about how they shape their braces as are other companies. If you find oneyou like, then try your best to duplicate their bracing scheme and see how your version of it works for you. If you arent satisfied, then try something else the next time until you get "THAT" sound youa re looking for.

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Thanks for the advice Hodges. I guess the best way to learn is just jump in. Just trying to get some clues to building so I can get a starting point. Thanks for the help.

_________________
Thanks To All:
Lee
Sikeston,Mo.

Actually, there are some things that can be said, but it's pretty complicated, and it's getting late. Besides, I think these posts are limited to only 60,000 characters.....

One problem is that you asked such an open ended question. The sound of a guitar depends on everything, the size and shape, the specific pieces of wood, all of the dimensions, even the finish. In many ways the top bracing only 'fine tunes' it. The basic sound is more or less established when you choose the model and the wood, and the bracing just makes it 'better' or 'worse'. It's pretty hard, no matter what you do with the bracing, to make a mahogany dread sound like a rosewood parlor.

Given a certain model and wood set, you can say some things. For example, I'd expect a given guitar to have more 'punch' and 'bass' with 'scalloped' bracing than if you used a 'tapered' profile. But, again, that's only a generalization, and there will always be the odd 'punchy' guitar with tapered bracing to make a liar out of me.

I realize it's frustrating. It seems as though _somebody_ ought to be able to tell you this stuff. The problem is that it's so darned complicated. It's sort of like the weather: the reason you only get a one week forcast is that the further out you go, the longer it takes to do the calculations. It might take 'only' a day to figure out what the weather will do next week, but to take it out one day further might require two weeks to figure out, and by then it already happened. I could, given enough time, explain to you what _I_ think is going on, but it would take a while. And, when I got done, somebody else would jump up and tell you that I'm full of it, and give you an entirely different explanation that might make as much (or as little) sense as mine.

In the end you'll just have to try a few things and make up your own mind. If you've got any specific questions, we'll try to answer them, and we may even remain civil in the process. This is a pretty good list that way....

I find myself always returning to a chess analogy in questions like this. Yes, there are specific strategies and formulas (I use that term loosely) that can help in controlling and shaping the tone of an instrument, but they would take far more than a few forum posts, or even a single book for that matter, to teach in any depth.

Like chess, learning these strategies can be done to some extent in abstract study but you do not gain the same understanding as you will by playing. Tutelage and guidance can certainly speed your improvement, but you still have to do it to learn. And judging the wood in your hands is every bit as complicated as judging the player across the board from you. Perhaps a hard formula would be possible to predict outcome and determine strategies, but it would require so many variables that it would take a Big Blue to run it, and a team of engineers and programmers to measure and enter them for each piece of wood.

People like Alan are an excellent resource to have around, to at least offer some well thought out general and specific advice, backed up by a wealth of experience. Even then of course, descriptions of tone are still so metaphorical and subjective that his "punch" and "bass" may not perfectly match the definitions in timbre that you've applied to them in your own mind. You're on the right path to be thinking of these things and asking these questions, but of course it will still take your own experimentation and listening to bring a tangible understanding.

I think this same analogy applies well to everything from tap tuning to setups. The best advice I could offer is to tap and flex every piece of wood you pick up along every stage of the building process. A few guitars and you'll begin to think you understand what's going on. A few dozen guitars and you'll think again that you don't. After that you'll hopefully start to find a more regular increase in consistency with your intentions and expectations.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

One way is to find a guitar with the sound you like and a shape you want to build. Then try to copy the bracing pattern. Pay attention to the height, width and profile of each brace. It's good to know the top thickness and what the top and braces are made from, too. That will give you a starting point for your first guitar and you can make adjustments from that one on future guitars. Frets.com has some photos of the insides of some well-known guitars that might be helpful.

_________________
Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

What great insight has been given here Once again my hat is off to David and Alan. Simple yet concise truth

EDLee, welcome to the OLF.

This is a fairly complex question. David Hurd's book has been bandied around, don't have a copy so you'll have to check that out yourself.

Frets.com is a good recommendation for seeing some great bracing schemes. Second on that motion....

Richard Hoover has some great shots of his work, and he does both scalloped and parabolic models, so check that out.

Dana Bourgeois does some interesting stuff with bracing on the main X brace. Lance does something similar if I remember correctly.

Then there is an interesting modification called the Proulx Tone Enhancer, you'll have to find out what that is all about.

Then there is Mr. Larivee, he beats his own drum, double x brace if memory serves.

That ought to keep you busy for a little while, then check out Charlie Hoffman. Charlie helped out a bunch of us early on before forum days, via email. He's a moderator over at the Acoustic Guitar Forum and so is Frank, so you might reach them there occasionally.

Do check out Charlie's site. I followed his lead on one very important point. I use the same x brace on all my guitars. There are just so many variables, you could spend the rest of your born days fiddling with it all. So, when changing things on tops, my guess it would be little baby steps of changes until you consistently find what you want and "know" what caused it.

Blueprints are the place to start. Or you could buy some vintage instruments and tear them apart.... to see why they are so wonderful. Did I say that? Grin. Try a mirror and a flashlight and impose on all your friends who own a good guitar.

Oh, by the way, we want a full analysis of what you learn in triplicate posted right here on the OLF.... good luck learning, ask lots of good questions! bd

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Thanks guys for the insight. It truly is appreciated. The question I asked was a million dollar question and should have known that by the studies I have already done myself. I geuss sometimes it's a lot easier trying to do it the lazy man's way. I really do appreciate you all.

EdLee I suppose, er, Guest.....

Lazy men don't build guitars.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com