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ps_rustoleum_specialty_SRhighheat.jpg
Don't laugh - they own Zinnser which you can use to French polish.........
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| Best finish (Other than nitro) http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16098 |
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| Author: | Chansen [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Scratch that. "Best" is too subjective around these parts.... How about this – What is the most user friendly finish (that looks good too), if I can’t spray? I have a compressor, but I’d rather not get into spraying a finish. Are my only two options French Polish and Tru-Oil? I have only heard about a couple people using Tru-Oil to finish the body of the guitar. I know Kathy Matsushita used True-Oil, and I think was happy with the results. Anyone have any pictures of this? What are your thoughts? If doing FP body and Tru-Oil neck, what do builders use on the headstock? Any other options I don’t know about that people have been happy with? Thanks all! BTW - When did we get all these freaking smilies jumping around???? They draw attention to my computer screen here at (whisper) work... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
in progression of work required rubbed tru-oil rubbed spirit varnish rubbed Rockhard brushed shellac brushed lacquer waterborne brushed nitro French polish with shellac I am sure I missed something If FP body and true oil neck I FP the peghead veneer Personally if you want a quality finish and don't mind putting in the elbow grease French polish the thing. Besides it will teach you a lot about hand rubbed finishes that will serve you well down the line. Sonicly you best choice IMO |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Since Colin isn't here to mention it, I'll post it. Kevin Aram, of some acclaim in Classical Guitar Construction, uses exclusively Tru-Oil or it's equivalent for all of his finishes, and, according to his opinion, thinks it is the most acoustically transparent finish available. His guitars start in the $7,500 - 8,000 range. Here is a link to his website. Aram Guitars He does not elaborate on the finish, other than to say it is an oil finish, but Colin has one of his guitars, and knows about his philosophy. That said, Colin prefers to French Polish his guitars. |
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| Author: | Chansen [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I read in another post that Liberon (pre mixed) for FP is good. How much is needed? |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Attachment: ps_rustoleum_specialty_SRhighheat.jpg Don't laugh - they own Zinnser which you can use to French polish.........
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Chansen wrote: I read in another post that Liberon (premixed) for FP is good. How much is needed? Excellent pre-mixed shellac A typical guitar will use maybe 3oz-4 oz of mixed shellac if your proficient maybe 4-6 for a first timer. A half gallon will last (as my grandson says when on a car trip) for-ev-ver. Liberon is a real clear extra blond mix if you would like a more vintage appearance Zinsser Seal Coat is another great premixed-mixed shellac suitable for French polish it is a light amber but still very clear tint. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Hesh wrote: Attachment: ps_rustoleum_specialty_SRhighheat.jpg Don't laugh - they own Zinser which you can use to French polish......... suitable go a trip to the mohave 
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Waddy's already answered for me, but let me say that the best finish, including Nitro, is French polish. But as he says, don't write off Tru-oil and the other rubbed oil finishes. As well as my Aram being an oil finish, my recently finished Torres 'homage', La lena, used a hand rubbed oil varnish, very similar to tru-oil. I used this because as Waddy said Kevin Aram, one of the top classical builders believes it's the best finish, but also because this is the type of finish that Torres used on his guitars. I put the oil finishes on using a FP muneca. My advice would be to get some Zinser seal coat or Liberon Special Pale and some Tru-oil and ty them out on some large scrap pieces. Colin |
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| Author: | Rob Warren [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I'm on #1 here, so I don't have a ton of experience but I'll chime in, as I'm in the process of finishing right now. I'm doing FP on the body, and tru-oil on the neck. I found FP to be a great finish. After a little practice and finding the right materials(anyone know where to find good 100% wool socks nowadays?) my guitar is looking beautiful. The tru-oil is a delight to work with and looks great. I decided on that thanks to lots of posts praising it for it's fast feel, and it looks great too. One more coat then I'll let it cure and polish with micro mesh. Oh, and I used tru-oil on the ebony headplate, and think it looks great. Hope that helps. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Wool socks at outdoor and camping gear places. You can, however, also get a lambskin pad, Including wool, for use in applying floor finishes. Shear the wool off and you are in business. They are available at the BORG. $7 or so. Make sure you get the real wool ones. They have fake wool ones too. |
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| Author: | brady.jackson [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
How's the durability of Tru-Oil, especially on necks? What do you use as pore filler under it? |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
brady.jackson wrote: How's the durability of Tru-Oil, especially on necks? What do you use as pore filler under it? Feels great and seems to last a long time. I finished one neck with it and filled the pores lightly sanding the mahogany with 320grit sandpaper lubricated with Tru-Oil. Worked great right out of the bottle. You won't get a high gloss with Tru-Oil though. |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I use polyurethan on all my guitars. I brush it on using a foam brush with a paper towel clipped on the brush, allowing a thin layer of poly, thus minimizing drips and rundowns. Final coat is done with 'wipe-on poly'. Then go directly to the buffer to remove the circular marks left from the wipe-on poly. That gives me a perfect finish, to my eyes at least. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
R DUB wrote: I'm on #1 here, so I don't have a ton of experience but I'll chime in, as I'm in the process of finishing right now. I'm doing FP on the body, and tru-oil on the neck. I found FP to be a great finish. After a little practice and finding the right materials(anyone know where to find good 100% wool socks nowadays?) my guitar is looking beautiful. The tru-oil is a delight to work with and looks great. I decided on that thanks to lots of posts praising it for it's fast feel, and it looks great too. One more coat then I'll let it cure and polish with micro mesh. Oh, and I used tru-oil on the ebony headplate, and think it looks great. Hope that helps. Be careful to get dye free as may dyes are soluble in alcohol. It is easer these days to buy cleaned but otherwise unprocessed wool tuffs. |
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| Author: | Chansen [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Thanks for the input - It sounds like FP is the choice I am hearing most... I will let you know how it turns out! |
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| Author: | Rob Warren [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I did manage to find close to all wool socks a Cabela's locally. Most of the other wool socks were pretty high % of synthetics. I found cotton gauze to be rather hard to find also. Most of it is synthetic too. Tried cotton ball type material, but couldn't get it to perform like I thought it should. Switched to wool, and problems went away. Michael, any ideas on suppliers for those wool tufts? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
R DUB wrote: I did manage to find close to all wool socks a Cabela's locally. Most of the other wool socks were pretty high % of synthetics. I found cotton gauze to be rather hard to find also. Most of it is synthetic too. Tried cotton ball type material, but couldn't get it to perform like I thought it should. Switched to wool, and problems went away. Michael, any ideas on suppliers for those wool tufts? There are several on the net that sell washed raw wool which is what I am speaking of. I orders some a couple years ago that ai am not half way through. For the life of me, here at work I can not think of their name but google raw wool and you will fined several venders. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
So, Michael, wool is your preferred muneca stuffing? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Todd Rose wrote: So, Michael, wool is your preferred muneca stuffing? By far. I believe (personal opinion mind you and preference of my French polish mentor my grandfather) Wool provides the best media for inner muneca. And well worn muslin for the outer muneca. I know a lot like cotton balls and they are pretty good. Some like cheesecloth and it is ok. But loose woven or washed natural raw wool is the best IMO. |
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I used the felt block from LMI on my one and only FP guitar. You can cut it into about any shape you want. http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Finishes&NameProdHeader=Shellac+%26+French+Polishing+Materials |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
MichaelP wrote: Todd Rose wrote: So, Michael, wool is your preferred muneca stuffing? By far. I believe (personal opinion mind you and preference of my French polish mentor my grandfather) Wool provides the best media for inner muneca. And well worn muslin for the outer muneca. I know a lot like cotton balls and they are pretty good. Some like cheesecloth and it is ok. But loose woven or washed natural raw wool is the best IMO. Thanks, Michael. Well-worn muslin, eh? That sounds like one of those things that's easier said than found... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Todd Rose wrote: MichaelP wrote: Todd Rose wrote: So, Michael, wool is your preferred muneca stuffing? By far. I believe (personal opinion mind you and preference of my French polish mentor my grandfather) Wool provides the best media for inner muneca. And well worn muslin for the outer muneca. I know a lot like cotton balls and they are pretty good. Some like cheesecloth and it is ok. But loose woven or washed natural raw wool is the best IMO. Thanks, Michael. Well-worn muslin, eh? That sounds like one of those things that's easier said than found... used muslin bed sheets, most high end motels use them and are will ing to give away old ones. I will tell you why I don't like t-shirt material. It is a 3 dimensional weave and will shead microscopic fibers when it gets over used and leaves a micro-ridge patterning. Now this is easly removed via spiriting off but muslin works much better IMO |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
Thanks again, Michael. I'll check out some hotels. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best finish (Other than nitro) |
I've had problems with all sorts of cotton shedding lint, so I just get linen for FP pads. It's a little hard to find sometimes, so stock up when you see it. Linen-rayon blend works well too. I brush Behlen's 'Rockhard' varnish, but thinned out, in the way that violin makers use an oil varnish. It goes on very thin and level, and doesn't require much effort to polish out. 'Novus' plastic polish is the best fror that: the Meguier's is a little too agressive. No other finish has the depth and 'light' of a good oil varnish, not even FP. |
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