Official Luthiers Forum!

It seams to be Violin month so here is a project that I started building many years ago but it never came to fruition. Someday I may finish it but I don’t play the violin so find my self somewhat clueless on this project. I had a Violinist, the one whom inspired me to build this but he has since retired and move to a warmer climate. I would have really benefited from his input. I still have a fair amount of work to complete but here it is.
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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

Looking good!

I really am interested in violins and at some point I will have to build myself one. please keep the pics coming so I'll have a better idea of how its done!

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Reguards,

Ken H

Nicely Done Rich. Set aside some time and finish that thing.

Looks like arching templates from Strobel, no?

You are correct. “Violin Making Step by Step” second edition.
It took me some time to find my books as they have been relocated a few times.
I also have H.S. Wake’s “The Technique of Violin Making”. In it he describes a tap tone method of matching the top and back plates. I haven’t tried it on my violin plates but I have tried it with my Arch Top plates. The jury is still out on weather it was of any use to me but the book overall was a good resource.

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

Great to see violin makers here! I've been working on a viola for several years now (keep putting it aside to make guitars...). A great resource for me has been Michael Darnton's website, http://www.darntonviolins.com. He was a frequent contributor to the violinmaking forum at Maestronet.com, another good resource for fiddlemakers.

Wow Rich, that is really interesting what you have accomplished. I'd like to see more pictures too as you progress on this little jewel.
What is that you have clamped to your vise in the first two pictures? A jig to hold the plates for carving? How did you make that?
What species of spruce are you making the table out of? I bought some High Grade Engelmann Spruce from Rocky Mountain Tonewood last summer. Joined the two pieces using hhg a couple months ago then put it aside to start on my first guitar. I'm anxious to get back to the fiddle though.
I also, bought Henry A. Strobel's "Violin Making step by step." I read it from cover to cover about twenty times. I liked it so well that I then bought "Art & Method of the Violin Maker," "Useful Measurements for Violin Makers," and "Violin Maker's Notebook."
I ordered HS Wakes book from International Luthier's Supply, but they took my money and ran. I never did get it.
Anyway....Keep working on that fiddle!

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Thanks Chuck and thanks to everyone else. The jig was made with poplar that was left over from a previous job. I used a couple of spring clams to hold it in place while I carved. The spring clamps make it real easy to remove the plates so I can check my progress. The top plate is spruce but off the top of head I am not sure of what spices, I will have to check my records when I get a chance.
I bought all of the books that you have. I have found them to very helpful.
Here is a pic of the jig without the plate.

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

Thanks for the nice picture of the top plate held by spring clamps so I can carve jig....I've been wondering how to make one and this it the most user friendly jig I've seen. I like the idea of holding the piece on with spring clamps for easy removal.

Here's something I've often wondered about, notice how the grain in the end blocks run just opposite of that which is in a guitar? Why is this? Could you put horizontal grain lines in a violin or even put vertical grain lines in blocks of a guitar? I think it has something to do with tone vibrations in the fiddle for the top and back, just like grain lines in the bass bar should run parallel. Here's something else. When setting the sound post, the grain lines in the post should run perpendicular with the grain lines of the top. Wonder why?

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

That there fiddle looks great! It also always so nice to hear about instruments other than guitars on this site!

Let me preface this by saying I am in no way an expert on the art of Violin construction. With that being said, I would have to say that the reasoning behind the grain orientation is more mater of a cross grain gluing situation than it has to do with the sound. Violins depend on glue to hold the neck securely on the body, it a simple butt joint. Guitars on the other hand use a mechanical form of attachment i.e. dovetail, bolts, dowels and in the case of a classical guitar a dado where the sides are let in to a solid block. They aren’t solely dependent on the glue so grain orientation is much less of an issue.
The coef of expansion and contraction is significantly different along the flat grain than it is along the quartered grain. It’s best to keep the grain orientation the same in order to minimize dimensional changes that could cause the glue joint to fail.
I suspect the sound post fallows the same reasoning but I could be wrong so I invite anyone with knowledge to enlighten me.

I just want to add that the violin does use the back plate as part of the neck body joint which significantly increases the structural integrity of the joint. It’s quite abet more than a just a simple butt joint that I have stated.

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

Rich, it looks like you are off to a FANTASTIC start! You need to finish this project and get a fiddle player close by to give it a test drive.
I have lots of violin making books and the best with the most current information is "The Art of Violin Making" by Roy Courtnall. The book is not as cheap as the Strobel books but has more detailed information. Well worth the investment if you are going to make violins. I still pull my copy off the shelf and refer to it from time to time.
This fiddle now has the first coat of varnish on it. I hope to put another on it today if it is dry enough.

Barry, I think your Violin looks great and I have enjoyed seeing it as you go through the building process. Thank you for sharing it with us.
I will look for Roy Courtnall’s book, the more information the better.
I am a long way off from applying varnish but I finished my last acoustics with a French polishing technique that I have read was used by early violin makers. It’s a combination of shellac and walnut oil. I am planning to use it on the violin unless there is a better method.
How are you applying your finish and what type of varnish are you using?

I am sure to have allot more questions as I progress through this project.
Thanks

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

In Stradivari's day they use oil varnish and the next generation of violin makers started using "Spirit Varnish" which is really just shellac with some drying oil like Walnut oil so you are right on target.
There is no good reason not to french polish a violin. I have done it and it works fine. The only problem is trying to rub in circles on the narrow ribs.
Now I am using oil varnish applied with a brush. To me finishing a violin is much easier than a guitar.
You may wind up like me. I started out building classical guitars and was talked into building a violin. After that I was hooked.

All this violin stuff is very timely. I now have the top plate carved for my wife's violin, it's from Euro spruce from the Fiemme valley, so has some history. Hope it can add the magic touch, my wife has played the Liotti, so I'm not under much pressure!

As to varnish, as some of you will know I do restoration work on historic guitars and lutes for a number of museums, almost invariably they are finished in some type of oil varnish. My recent homage to Torres La Suprema 'La lena' was also finished in the same hand rubbed oil varnish that I use in restoration work.

Nice to have some violin builders on here now, all we need now is a few more lute builders.



Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, this looks excellent! Is the a current project on your bench? What type of varnish are you going to use?

Barry, yes it's one I'm currently working on sporadically. My wife played with the London Symphony Orchestra for many years after studying at the Royal College of Music here in London. She has a number of pretty high end violins (the insurance!!), and collects the better 19th century German violins as a sort of academic exercise. Well I'm mainly a guitar and lute builder as a hobby, but also restore historic guitars and lutes for a number of the London museums. (my day job is Geologist) I have promised to make her a violin for some years and thought I'd give it a go. I've got a $1/4M lute sitting in my workshop that need restoration which is making me a little nervous, so this violin is my excuse for delaying work on that. By the way, got the top purfling in tonight.

The varnish will be a hand rubbed oil, that I use on the historic stuff. Search in the forum for La lena, my most recent guitar, that is finished in it as well as it is a close match to Torres varnish.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

That would be the "Chunky Orange Marmalade" finish?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

That's right 'Frank Cooper's Chunky Oxford Marmalade' to be precise.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.