I've heard different things on this subject.
Does bearclaw in a spruce top effect the tone? ..and if you think that it does, in what way? 
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bearclaw and Tone? |
I've heard different things on this subject. Does bearclaw in a spruce top effect the tone? ..and if you think that it does, in what way?
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| Author: | charliewood [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Im curious also as Im using a bearclaw top on my #1...  Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Absolutely - it has a characteristic growl to it and at times it sounds like it is scratching it's arse on a stump..............  Seriously - no.
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| Author: | jfrench [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Anything significant about the grain in a soundboard is going to effect the tone in some way, the problem is identifying how. I wish I could offer you something to that regard, but the best I can say is that I have had favorable results with bearclawed (European) spruce soundboards. You still need to judge the board by the same criteria as normal: stiffness, runout, weight, etc. The bearclaw may effect the stiffness, but if it does you're still judging the stiffness, not the bearclaw. In other words, if it meets the criteria you use to judge a worthy soundboard, forget about the bearclaw, build as normal and treat it as an aesthetic bonus. |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Some think that the claw makes it stiffer, but I havent seen any comments on a differance in tone. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
The thing about Bearclaw is that it whispers before it scratches, fatally most of the time. Hazelfichte, the German kind, is particularly ferocious. Although I could swear I saw some Hazelfichte enlargement patches for sale somewhere, I think girls like it too. |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Bearclaw is synomomus with quality becouse it only occurs on perfectly quartered tops. i have heard conflicting reports about bearclaw some good some bad. i think that if you have bearclaw it will idicate that the top will probably be stiffer becouse it will be perfectly on quarter. other that that i cant think of any reason that it would contribute to the tone of the guitar in any way unless it was very strong even bearclaw that coverd the entire top. i dont know much about spruce but i am sure that some of the more knowlegable folks will chime in on this. joel. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Just to put things in perspective. I've heard that some time ago Martin, Gibson and all discarded any top with bearclaw. It was thought as a defect in the wood. I'm speculating that the same inquiry 3 decades before now would have been biased toward thinking that a bearclaw top sounded inferior, if anything. Joel, I disagree with your statement: I've seen it on slightly off-quarter tops. Bearclaw is not the same as medullary rays. 1st pic is a German top with heavy Hazelfichte, although Martin Guhl would rather call it "flame". Incredibly stiff, I think I thicknessed it to .100" on an OM type guitar, which is the thinnest I've done on a "big" guitar. It's been over 2 years and according to the owner the top hasn't even developed the slightest belly. Is the stiffness due to the figure? I wouldn't be sure, I've used another German top with Hazelfichte on a 0 size guitar (pic 2), although perfectly quartersawn, it had a certain floppiness across the grain. Now, let's talk about the magical properties of Bazilian rosewood… |
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| Author: | fryovanni [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
I think first and formost people like the look as with any other figured wood. This creates a want, with limited supply, price goes up, people try to justify why it is better in other ways beyond looks. I don't suppose it is enough just take something that can cost so much, based stricktly on demand and not try to add some magic. I have never found bearclaw to be consistently stiffer or actually less stiff than other similar sets. I can see how it could easily effect the properties of the wood, but I have never noted much change. Either way, I will not buy into anything believed to make soundboards consistently stiffer, unless I see it for myself in the wood I cut (after cutting a pretty fair number of sounboards, I find most grading criteria does not translate consistently to better stiffness, and often what should be less stiff by these critera are actually very stiff). Rich |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Bearclaw shows up differently depending on the angle of cut, but you can see it at any angle between perfectly quartered and 45 degree skew, at least. A friend has a bearclaw Euro top that has the most 'claw I've ever seen, but it's dead skew cut, and you could probably wrap it around a soda can. I've been told, by somebody who has measured the stiffness of more tops than I have, that 'claw tops tend to have lower stiffness along the grain, and a little higher across the grain, than straight grained tops. This makes some sense when you think about it. I beleive 'claw tops also tend to be a little bit denser than straight grained ones. I always feel like a bit of 'claw adds some 'interest' to the sound, but I have no 'data' to back that up. I do like the stuff, though. |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
sorry folks my bad all my bearclaw tops are perfectly quatered and i have never seen it on an off quarter cut. i never said that bearclaw had anything to do with medulary rays in fact its cuased by an totaly unrelated phenomenen. i was told my supplier (who has been suppling tops for over 30 years) that bear claw is synonumus with good quartered tops but i stand corrected. i was also told like alan that bearclaw usualy mesures less stiff when mesured and i think it was brian burns who said this. i have some bear claw brace stock here i may try cutting some off quarter to see what happens i knoe it does not occure on slab sawn faces. joel. |
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| Author: | fryovanni [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Quote: sorry folks my bad all my bearclaw tops are perfectly quatered and i have never seen it on an off quarter cut. i never said that bearclaw had anything to do with medulary rays in fact its cuased by an totaly unrelated phenomenen. i was told my supplier (who has been suppling tops for over 30 years) that bear claw is synonumus with good quartered tops but i stand corrected. i was also told like alan that bearclaw usualy mesures less stiff when mesured and i think it was brian burns who said this. Actually, the claw I have cut does run in patterns(although not perectly linear) that do hold pretty perpendicular to the growth rings, so they would and obviously appear as we know claw to look on the quarter cut. Looking at the claw from a flat to the grain perspective it looks more like bumps. Claw varies in diameter, and you can lose it if the cut is sloppy or you sand it away. So if you want to see the claw figure well a well quartered clean cut is best, although because it does not run absolutely linear and varies in diameter I wouldn't rely on it as a solid indication of lack of runnout or how well quartered the wood is. One thing I see(visually) to be true, but am not sure if this is absolutely true. Rays appear strongest when wood is split. If you cut true to that split surface you retain the appearance of the rays. The farther off that true split I get the harder it becomes to see the rays(although you can see them it is much less visable). This is something that is pretty easy to see (just split a surface, cut referencing that surface, and compair). I can't say it is an absolute indicator of stiffness, because I find the rays present in stiff and less stiff wood, but I suppose if it does hold to be an indicator of the degree of runnout. It could let you know your getting the best out of that particular wood in that sense. I have read that these rays are a weak point in the structure, so I have often wondered how aligned they remain as the tree grows, and if this helps define where the wood naturally wants to split. Not sure about all that, but would love more info if anyone can fill me in. Rich |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Beautiful guitar Filippo - who built it? |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bearclaw and Tone? |
Medullary rays are little bundles of cells that run along the radius of the tree. They are there to carry sap in and out of the living part of the tree, the sapwood. I have yet to see a wood that didn't have them, but they're more prominant on some woods than others, and they only really show up well when they run right along a cut/split surface. In other words, perfectly quartered. Since the fiber direction in the rays is across the grain of the wood they add a lot of stiffness. Still, each piece of wood is different, and some perfectly quartered wood has lower cross grain stiffness than other pieces of the same species that may not even be as well quartered. |
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