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Question regarding bending sides
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16463		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Question regarding bending sides
I just finished thickness sanding my sides to the plan specs....can I start bending them now? The Antes OM plans are the ones I am using...
Author:  JRessler [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
I typically wait to bend them until I am ready to put them in the form. If your form is ready to go, start bending! (If you are going to profile your sides for the contour of the back, be sure to do this before bending.)
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
well.......the mold is done.......profile the sides....hmmmm.....the only thing I have to go by regarding the profile is a spot on the plan that tells me what the width is where the neck heel meets the body.....and the width at the other end.....is this what you refer too?
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
only thing is.....it doesn't tell me what the length should be....so that raises the question of WHERE to cut....??
Author:  D Stewart [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
On the first one, I had no profile to go by so I left them big/tall. That meant taking a lot off once they were shaped. Several ideas in the archives on how to do that, especially referenced from a dish. Also seems that Mr. Ford at Frets.com and possibly Silvan Wells' site if I remember correctly. Others may chime in with specific links. It is much easier to profile first, but you have to bend at the right spots. Indexing the bend with the benders makes this easier. For the first, keep one side very flat for the top and make sure you keep that correct for both sides. Think twice, bend once. [headinwall] Then cut to length based on the mold centerline.
Good luck.

Donovan
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
I am making a practice piece out of quartered white oak right now........90 thousandths thick....so i got the practice part covered.

I think I am going to have to bend this as they are and then profile them after I get them into the mold. I know it will be harder but the Antes plans leave a little out here as far as their length PRIOR to bending is concerned. I feel like if I had that information I could profile them first.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Snig,
You can develop your own pattern for the side profile.

If you have a similar guitar that you are building, copy that one.

You can cut a six inch wide piece of paper 32 inches long and tape it and mark it. Tape that to a piece of tempered hardboard or other blank and cut out and sand for a permanent pattern for profiling.

Another way of doing it, use it all the time, take tinfoil and cut it lengthwise 6 inches and simply bend the corners edge of the 34 inch strip against a guitar you are copying. Lay it out flat taped or glued to a blank, then bandsaw out and sand smooth, for your pattern.

Many folk profile after the endblocks are in, but not the preferred method by most. Good luck.
Author:  Dave Higham [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Here's how to profile the sides.

viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8117
Author:  sharp_custom [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Something I did when I was first starting was run a piece of tape around the inside of the mold, on one half. Trim the tape at the centerline for both heel and tail. Remove the tape and you've got your length. I would also mark the center of the waist on the tape. Make a template or keep notes on these measurements for future reference.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Dave that is exactly what I needed. Thanks a bunch....

Now all I need is the radius dishes..... [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall]
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Snig buddy here is some more info for you that hopefully will be helpful.

I use a method that Colin (OLF member) developed where you can capture the profile of the side using a small piece of wood with a hole in it, a pencil, and the radius dish, tape, and mold. Perhaps someone will post a link to that thread please?

Once I have the back profile I leave the top edge of the side flat so that I can lay everything out flat on a table when I glue in the blocks.

Make your sides about an inch longer on both ends then the plan calls for and take great care to position the center of the waist in the center of the bender..........

The thickness of your sides will have a great deal to do with how well they bend. I bend mahogany at about .080, rosewood at .085 etc.

Do some practice bends, use craft paper to wrap the sides in, and I use only a light spritzing of distilled water.

There is a toot that some jerk wrote in the tutorial section about bending sides that might be worth some laughs for you too.

Good luck.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
For all of you.......Thank you so very much....at the very least I can get the length done. I need radius dishes...(don't have them).......heck I don't even know which radii to use because the Antes plans don't even mention it. I have seen several topics on here regarding radius but I don't think I have seen them OM specific. Need to search that......

Wheres a good place to get the radius dishes..I really don't want to make them.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
John Hall - Blues Creek
Tracy - Luthier Suppliers
Shane - High Mountain Tonewoods
LMI

And forgive me please any sponsors that I have left out here I just don't know everyone who sells these.

Snig I use 15 and 25 for my radiuses for everything that I build and this includes OMs.
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
THANKS hesh......I mean it.
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Sniggly,

Donovan mentioned it, but my voice of (albeit limited) experience would emphasize... If you are going to profile your wood before you bend it, double and triple check to make sure it's facing the right way in the bender. On my first, I ended up with two sides that belonged on the same side of the guitar. (And I'm certain I double checked it before I but it into the bender!)

On the bright side, I got the opportunity to learn how to use a bending iron to straighten it out and rebend it. Came out fine, but I was certainly bummed and embarrassed when I first realized what I had done.

As for tools and jigs, at the top of every page is a list of sponsors. I've heard only praise for them in my months on OLF. Many of them carry most of that kind of thing and they sponsor this place, so give them a call.

Miek
Author:  JRessler [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Here is how I make a template for the profile, which I found to be really easy.

I bend an orphan side with no profile (I used poplar)
Fit it into the mold.
Sand it down in the radius dish until all edges touch the sandpaper
Straighten out the side, and there you have your template. You just need to make sure that the widths are correct, so you might want to transfer this profile to make your template, or make the orphan side wide enough so you can trim the straight side to fit. And yes, dont' forget to add an inch or so to each end
I have done this for a cutaway as well

I have also used formica to do this, if the bends aren't too tight (like a dreadnought). It works great.
Author:  RaymundH [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
I'll probably get shot for this advice but hey, wadda you do?

In order to get the top and bottom profile (28' top and 15' back) I asked John Hall to send me a tracing of a profiled side. I then laid it on my side piece and traced it with a white pencil then cut it on my bandsaw about 1/8" outside the lines to compensate for the radius dish sanding I do after I bend the sides and install the neck and tail blocks. There is a small fee for the tracing but it saved me a lot of guesswork.
Yes, it's a bit of a shortcut, but as you will find the journey to a finished instrument is frought with very important "details" that you can't miss.

Most importantly...ENJOY THE JOURNEY!

Ray
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Here is another method for capturing the side profile exactly. This is from Colin and I use this method and it works fantastic every time. You will need the radius dish, a mold, some tape, a pencil, and a scrap of wood.

Thanks again to Colin for this terrific method!!! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8117&hilit=+side
Author:  Dave Higham [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Er... Hesh???

That's the link I posted yesterday, about 10 posts further up this page. ;)
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question regarding bending sides
Sorry Dave - thanks for posting this originally. [:Y:]
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