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Bracing Critique
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16468		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Bracing Critique
This is Dred. sitka top.Sitka braces forward shifted.
I'm trying for a little more bass in it's voice, hence the shorter tone bars, I should have asked first ,I'm hoping I havent created problems by doing that! I also left the point a little high on the tone bar closest to the bridge plate because I dredfully fear Belly aches.[img]Image[/img]
I'm not sure if the points on the others are to high [img]Image[/img]
[img]Image[/img]
This voicing thing is still a bit of a mystery to me. I'm really just trying to get a good clear tone out of the tap.
Oh yea, I'm still trying to figure out the photo sizing thing.Sorry they are so big.
Any advice will be much appreciated.
thanks for looking,
Peter
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
I forgot to ask about the pitch pocket you can see in the first picture.
should I do anything with that?
Thanks again,
Peter
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
I like it Peter and I think that you did a great job! [:Y:]

Some nits for you would be to remove some of the mass on the sides of the upper transverse brace making a more triangular cross section. Also, on the upper transverse brace start your scalloping to the kerfed linings sooner and round out the peaks. Remember these are nits and if you changed nothing at all I suspect that you have a great top there.

Overall it's great to see yet another early guitar that is not over braced and I suspect she will sound great! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Oh and if the pitch pocket is not very deep and does not show on the out side I would consider it a feature and charge a premium for it...... :D
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
looks great to me. I don't see any problems. Hesh, why would you want to remove mass from the upper transverse brace?
Terry
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Hesh, the pitch pocket doesn't show on the face side. How much more should I charge for that? :)
I know it's a little late for me to be worrying about this but do you think that the shorter tone bars will compromise the top?
Peter
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Why the facets in the end of the bridge plate? if you were tying in the first tone bar to the bridge plate i could understand one where the tone bar and the bridge plate meet but the corners just form un-needed stress risers. Straight across or arched would eliminate them.. Personally I think you started your scalloping a bit to soon I would like to se the X brace at full height closer to the bridge plate to give better rotational support and start the scalloping at the front of the bridge plate or just into the bridge plate. Outside of that and what Hesh said about the UT brace looks very good.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Looks great.
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Hey Michael, thanks for the input. I really am just trying to figure this out.
What you say about starting to scallop @ the bridge plate makes sense to me, I just never thought about that. It's hard to ask the right questions when a guy dosen't know what questions to ask. My thoughts have been to eliminate mass and perhaps I'm not thinking enough about the integrity of the top.
As for the bridge plate angled off, It is how I did my last on which was back shifted and the tone bar and plate intersected.
Guess I just had a vapor lock this time :oops:
This is just the type of feedback I am hoping for
thank you,
Peter
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Now don't start chiseling it off! If it can still cover and extend over the bridge limit, sand/chisel those corners away to make an arc.
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Braces look fine to me but it looks like your top is splitting under the fingerboard area. It’s a minor problem where it is but it is an indicator that your top may not be joined properly.
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Hey Rich
Thats a pencil center line.

I think it's a good idea to curve the points on the bridge plate. Thanks for that :)
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
What is the top thickness? .11?
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
piiman wrote:
Hey Rich
Thats a pencil center line.

I think it's a good idea to curve the points on the bridge plate. Thanks for that :)

My bad...sorry.
Author:  KenH [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
The bracing looks fine to me. I like that you left a little extra meat on the x-braces that are forward of the intersection. If there were any negatives at all, it would be the amount of mass in the transverse brace. I personally do mine a little different, but to each his own. I dont see a problem with the pitch pocket at all.
Author:  Mark L. [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
I think you might just have a cannon there! [:Y:] The forward shifted x-brace, tone bars going down to nothing, it ought to have really good bass response, I would think. Do the things mentioned above and it'll be great!
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
If you want bass then keep the peaks a little further from the edge in the lower x-brace. Also, round all of the peaks a little. They can sap volume at certain frequencies and make the sound uneven as you fret at different places on the soundboard. You playing mediums with a pick and a medium to aggressive attack? Should be fine.
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
It all looks fine: I wouldn't change a thing....
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Alex, the top actually varies from .104- 115.

Ken, thanks for the tips on the peaks. this is all stuff I wasn't aware of.
What an awsome community this isThank you all for sharing your knowlege. bliss
Peter
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Remember that I also said that if you left it as is I think you will have a great sounding guitar.

Terry buddy having the upper transverse brace as wide at the top as it is at the bottom adds no strength, a triangular profile is nearly as strong and has a lot less mass for the top to try to drive. Again I am nit picking, you know, being a jerk and this is a great looking top.

I have been giving my upper transverse braces more of a triangular profile recently and now the top rings in that area when I tap it. Before when I just put a 2 X 4 up there is was deader than hell.

Peter I charge an up-charge of $100 per pitch pocket........ :D Then I go back to the sponsor who sold me the top and get a credit for a new top....... :D

Peter do you bake your tops? You might benefit from this in the future and you will find many discussions on this in the archives if you are interested. After seeing your very fine work I have no doubt that you are going to be a great builder.

Nice work.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Oh yeah - I forgot - that black mat that you have your top on will give my dear friend JJ fits if he sees it. I use them too but I washed mine a few times in the washing machine and have used the same one for many guitars with no problems.

But...... there is a possibility that some of the silicon used in the manufacturing process, release agents, may contaminate your wood so you might consider switching. As for me I am never going to switch and I am even sure to show these mats in every picture that I take just to irritate JJ......... :D
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Whoops I just spotted something that concerns me - it looks like the upper transverse brace is tapered away to nothing prior to the kerfed linings....... You really want this brace to be inlet into the kerfed linings. Perhaps I am not seeing the picture correctly and all is well.
Author:  Peter Pii [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Hesh
You are correct ,the trans brace does fall short of the lining area. Oh my! what are the consequenses?
I suppose I can change it out?
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Fercryingoutloud, Heshster, use the edit button instead of flooding the thread with 3 posts in a row. Doing so just to add to your post count is silly...

I had noticed the mat, also, but forgot to mention it. Bad mats, bad, bad mats....

You're fine with the transverse brace not being tucked. Tuck the next ones, but don't fret over this one....
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing Critique
Peter, I like it as well and think you'll be fine.
If you want the experience of removing and replacing a brace, then you could go that route with the transverse brace. (I wouldn't.)
If it still worries you, glue in some small brackets on the sides that will catch and support the ends of the transverse. You know, notch the lining there, add the brackets. It will be a small challenge fitting them, but you look up to such a challenge.

Steve
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