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Help-Bridge plate to far back
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16482		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  akennedy94 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Help-Bridge plate to far back
I have been pouring over this site for quite some time now, so I am kinda embaressed to be posting for the first time for a screw up. Long story short, my bridge plate is too far back for my scale length. If I put my bridge pins in I will be drilling through my x-brace. Can I use a pinless bridge to compensate or should I rip the top off and start over? As it is the saddle will be less than half an inch from the X. I need some good news, I was hoping to have a couple of coats of finish on before the wife gets home sunday, but I guess the more you screw up the more you learn on your first build. Thanks
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Can I use a pinless bridge to compensate?

Yep.
Author:  akennedy94 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Thanks Bruce! Ive been outside checking to see what tops I have to start over. You just made my day-
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Like Bruce said, go for a pinless bridge with either the small studs that the ball ends fit over or the style (like Lowden) where the strings feed through holes at the back of the bridge and the ball ends rest against that edge...like a classical without the tied on strings.
You didn't say, but is this your first try at building?
If so, with the bridge that far up and straddling the lower X brace legs that close to the X intersection, you will probably have a fairly "stiff" top as it relates to the string energy driving the top. It will be interesting to hear what volume/tone you get from this arrangement vis a vis your interior top bracing architecture. Worst case, if it doesn't perform to your expectations, is to re-top it later. That will give you some "repair" experience and allow you to compare volume/tone with a more "conventionally" placed bridge location.
Count it as a learning experience. [:Y:]
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Well one thing you could do is put a light inside the guitar, darken the room, and mark the front edge of the bridge plate on the top. Then figure out if you could use a longer scale length or maybe a 12 fret neck and make a new neck. I have no idea if a pinless bridge would work. Might not be supported very well if the plate is way back.
I had one guitar come in that had all the pin holes drilled through the x brace completely missing the bridge plate. That guy built the body with 12 fret plans but then used a 14 fret neck.
Terry
Author:  akennedy94 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Yes, this is my first build. I have been doing repairs on it the entire time, I am getting quite good. I have screwed up everyway imaginable. I am making an OM-started off with deeper body and an oversized soundhole. I braced it up and never thought about the scale length until I was reading on the forum today about compensating and intonating the saddle. I thought I only had some light sanding, building of my bridge and be done. Ha Ha! Thats a good idea about the light except I have my fingerboard over at Lavins for some inlay work. This is a tribute for my grandad.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
I have to voice my dissent, in that I think going with a pinless bridge would be quite a bad idea. The X and plate aren't positioned strictly to dodge the bridge pins, but actually have some tonal and structural sense in their location.

If you want to treat it as an experiment with full acceptance that you may have to rip off the top and redo it as Hank mentioned, then go right ahead. If it were me I would either make a new neck to fit the bracing, or retop it.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Given the info at hand, I'd have to disagree with going ahead with a pinless bridge. If you haven't started finishing yet, you're in a pretty good spot to remove the top, and rebrace it. If your saddle is only 1/2" from the intersection of the X, I doubt you will end up with a good sounding guitar (although I can't say I've built one that way to know ;) ). With the X that close and the bridge patch that far south, you are going to end up top that wont do a lot of pumping.

Finishing is still a big job ahead of you plus designing and building a pinless bridge. I think you'd be throwing good money after bad.

Is the neck built? If not, you could think about going with a 12 or 13 fret neck too.
Author:  akennedy94 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
thanks, David--right when I was getting excited about not having to rip the top off. I really dont want to rip it off after Ive finished it, so its off to the shop I go tail between my legs.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
David, you beat me to it!
Author:  peterm [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Even though I build mainly with pinless bridges, its very important to have the bridge placed in an area where it will not only provide under bridge plate coverage as well as an area that will give you most soundboard movement. I don't thing right over the X will be a good place to place a bridge. If you really don't want to redo the top, maybe you can take some of the others' advise and do a 13 fret neck. It will be the best compromise.

Good luck,
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
I'll add my vote to to the idea that the bridge plate must be properly positioned for the bridge, be it pinless or not.
Author:  burbank [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
There IS a bright side to this: you caught it before you put on a pin bridge and drilled bridge pin holes through your x-bracing.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
i would agree with those that advise not to put the bridge too close to the x-brace joint.

this would also be the time to sit back and analyse how this situation arose; did you diverge from the ;lan in one aspect and fail to compensate in another, and so on. by doing so you should help yourself to avoid such situations in the future.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
If it's a tribute, I wouldn't make it an experiment. But, if the inlay hasn't begun you might get it back, take off the fretboard and add a zero fret to a new fretboard. That would buy you a little space. Otherwise I would take off the top and do it again. It's just another repair.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help-Bridge plate to far back
Sounds as if your bracing is waaay off. If you go ahead with pinless, the likelihood is that it will sound awful and self-destruct. Put a new top on it.
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