Official Luthiers Forum!

Do you use rim braces for all types of wood used for sides ? or only woods suseptable to cracking such as brazilian rose wood etc etc ../ thanks Jody

Jody buddy I use side tapes that extend under the kerfed linings. And yes I use them on all the guitars that I make regardless of the type of wood.

Hesh whats the difference between side tapes and braces ? thanks Jody

I use side braces for all types of wood and I believe that's what most builders do. Any type of wood can always crack, it all depends and the strength of the hit it takes.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Jody side tapes are fabric tapes, I use 3/4" wide, that can be purchased as "Bias tape" after your disguise yourself and go to a fabric store. They are generally a cotton/poly blend, come in many colors and widths. There are a couple of tutorials here on the OLF showing the installation using Titebond or HHG.

This has been discussed many times here before but I am never going to send anyone to the library so I'll give you my thoughts on side supports/tapes again.

To me the primary mission in life for a side support or tape is to arrest a crack from running. That didn't sound right so let me say they are designed to stop a crack in the side of your guitar from getting bigger.

As such, and to prevent stress risers (see currently running thread on stress risers) regardless of if you use side tapes or wooden or some other material, perhaps CF, side supports they need to extend under the kerfed linings. If they do not a crack will follow the path of least resistance where the side supports end that the kerfed linings begin.

Both Martin and Gibson used side tapes in the past and perhaps still do, I don't know. I like them because they are very easy to install, add virtually no weight, have a wider foot print then a wooden brace, and come in matching colors.....

Here is a shot of some side tapes on an L-OO.

As a side note some builders don't use any supports/tapes and builders that use double sides typically don't use them either nor do they need to.

So it's all over the place, tapes, wooden supports, inlet, not inlet, no supports at all etc.

I was flipping through Irving Sloane's book last night. He used fabric backed tape, according to the text. When you look at the picture you see what we would call duct tape, or hundred mile an hour tape if you are in the Army. He would put the tape on the side, hold a piece of lining in place and then trim the tape out from under the linings. He had to, glue wouldn't stick to the back of the tape very well to the plastic backing of the tape, if at all. I found that to be very interesting. But I have to wonder if the tape is still in place or did the adhesive fail after all these years.

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Aoibeann

Who was it that said "in the long run we will all be dead..."

John Maynard Keynes


Happy Easter

I like tapes myself. I also like to put 2 wooden side braces in the flat area between the waist and lower bout (precisely where the guitar would rest on your leg when playing). I've seen guitars get cracks in that spot because a well intention picker forgot to take the keys out of his pocket...

I use side tapes similar to what Hesh and the others do, and here is why, at least in my mind. When building solid wood furniture, there is the general practice of attaching moulding to say, a cabinet side. The moulding is glued at its miter at the front in order to keep the miter joint closed. Then, the moulding is attached in such a way along its length to allow the sides to move (small brads, slotted hole in the cabinet side hidden by the moulding itself, etc) with the changes in RH. This is done because the movement of the cabinet sides across the grain is more significant than the movement of the moulding along its grain, and will cause the side of the cabinet to split, even though the side is 3/4" thick. I know that the movement of a guitar side would be less, but there may just be a possibility of it happening. We do a lot of long/cross grain gluing when bracing a top or back, but they can move up or down (the reason for action drop in low RH situations) due to the fact that they are arched. When we glue in a tailblock, dont we orient the grain to match the side grain, not only to keep the guitar from breaking in half if dropped on an end pin, but to also allow the tailblock and side to move in unison during RH changes? Now keep in mind that this is simply my personal opinion, based on solid furniture construction practices, and I am just trying to explain why I do this a certain way. There are a HUGE amount of guitars out there with side braces, and they must be doing fine, or there would be none. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first, and not the last!

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Brad Tucker

Regarding the tailblock, the orientation issue is more of a grain orientation issue due to the fact that it better to have gluing surfaces side grain and not end grain, which would make for a weak glue joint. A guitar dropped on an endpin could split regardless, and would follow the grain of the endblock generally speaking. The one guitar I had a side split in was courtesy of the shipping company, and ironically, it had wood side braces. I think it took one heck of a lick, though.

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Brad Tucker

I used to use the ribbon pieces that extend right through the kerfed linings and then moved to wooden braces that would butt against the kerfed linings. The reason for the change was nothing other than t be able to have the side braces made from the same material as the sides to create a more organic kind of look inside the guitar.


I switched back just because I like the minimal weight and restriction that the ribbon present and the simple fact that my kerfed linings can be installed right over them, eliminating the possibility of a future crack continuing past one of them at the point where the wood braces would be butted against the linings.

Many great builders don't use them at all and I've repaired side cracks in some of their guitars that would have been much shorter had there been some sort of crack control in place. They're just too easy to install compared to the additional work that is called for in the event of a crack occurring if they're not there.

Just my opinion.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I use drops from the laminated neck blank of the neck to be used as an artistic feature as well as to stop cracks. I trim the drops to the width of the center 3 laminates and about 3/16 thick and shape them to fit the linings.

Nah side tapes are useless in preventing cracks........

When Your wife drives over the rims in the mold.

ouch that hurts Jeff! oohh Jody

Here's a Chris Jenkins guitar, showing his artistic bent...even with side braces.
Each guitar is different, and the challenge is having a new interior scheme for each instrument.
Looks like Chris is having fun....

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com