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I'm doing a lotus flower inlay made up of 15 pieces of pearl. The pieces unfortunately are not of consistent thickness.

Any thoughts on how to assemble the inlay so that the joints are as air-tight as possible and the tops are in the same plane?

Is it better to assemble the whole inlay before gluing into the pocket or fit them in first and wick in CA?

Any thoughts on how I can make this look more pro?

You have out-classed anything I could do just by getting the pearl to look like a flower. With inlays like rosettes, I usually just inlay them and sand everything flat after it is inlaid.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Sheldon, Craig or one of the other inlay monsters will be along soon to help, but I would just comment that for a composite object made from pieces of the same material, I would think a uniform, extremely thin line bordering the elements may enhance the piece. So, ultra-tight fitting joints may not serve as well artistically. Black CA or black epoxy filling some very narrow gaps may be just what the doctor ordered for this one.

As for a uniform height of the lotus blossom petal tips, well, only you know what you want to achieve with this one, but a bit of organic flow and asymmetry lends credence to the art depicting nature (which you have achieved.)

Looks mighty nice to me!

Dennis

{edit} Oh, now I see that you are not talking about the tips being on a consistent arc. I'll leave my comments, FWIW, and it sounds like you have an answer to working in the same plane.

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Sheldon, I'm w/ Chris, I'd glue them face down to something easily removed later. I'd probably go another step as well, by flattening them from the rear so that they are all finally the same thickness.
A good drum sander w/ a fine belt could reduce them quickly.
(Yes, they'd need to be securely glued to some backer first.)

Steve

P.S.--That's a really pretty inlay!

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Sheldon, I agree with what was said about gluing the pieces face down first but I wouldn't do it on wax paper as the little pieces could float around on you after you squirt CA on the pieces and you could end up with ill fitting pieces.

Try this. Lay masking tape overlapping slightly on the edges sticky side up in the width and length needed for your multi piece inlay. Tape the top and bottom edge of your sticky side up rectangle of masking tape to wax paper that has been pre-taped down on a level work board. The sticky side up masking tape holds the pieces nicely together when you dry fit them. Once happy with the fit -- hit it with CA or with dyed epoxy. The pieces will now be flush on the surface. After the piece has dried nicely you can scrape the tape off with a razor blade. (I picked up this tip from Grit Laskin's inlay book).

Cut your inlay pocket to just as thick or just shy of the thickness of your thickest piece of pearl. Set epoxy into the inlay pocket (not CA) and set the fully laminated piece. There should be sufficient epoxy in the pocket to act as a filler under the thinner pieces of MOP.

Lastly, the reason you want the top surface flush is using Gold MOP you might not like the colour once you sand the surface flush after inlaying the pieces. For example the thicker pieces might be more whitish in shade after you sand say 0.01 to 0.02" of surface away to flush with the thinner pieces.

If your pieces are fitting really nice and tight -- prior to laminating all pieces together as described above you can coat the edges with Shellac dyed black. If the fit isn't perfect and you still want to show some black line definition between the pieces of petals, used dyed black epoxy or black CA (if you can source it readily).

Beautiful flower!! Looks like you are well on your way to producing lovely inlay.

Below is the best example I could find of doing it the way described above.

I tack the pieces together with CA similar to what Chris described with one little difference. I assemble them over a copy(I print on clear vellum so I can see the pattern when it is face down) of the original pattern, with wax paper below the copy(don't want your work stuck down to the surface your assembling on). I assemble face down for sure, because you don't want to lose the look of the pearl by having to surface it too much.

This is the method I used for the inlayed rose under my user name. I used that method on the inlay in the pic below also.


Rich

With cnc cut pockets and shell it is a little different (aren't you a cnc guy Sheldon?). If you glue all of your parts together first, the resulting assembly probably will not fit in your pocket (unless you design some slop into the pocket). I would cut the parts to be "size to size" (i.e. setup for a perfect fit, no gaps) and then hand fit them.

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

One technique I like to use is to use kraft paper and glue the inlay on the kraft paper face up. It is like dealing with 1 piece. The other is as being discussed CA on was paper. It depends on the design.
Find what works for you
john hall

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

1) Glue them all up prior to scribing or insetting - always. Once the rout is made and you advance a bit you can start to mess with the basics, but best to get solid techniques down first.

2) If it's going on a flat surface and you don't need to preserve the surface color then there is no reason to inlay flat front down. From this image it seems there is no reason to, as all the materials are the same exact colors. it just makes more work when it's not needed. Sometimes it is needed, just not here.

If you trying to preserve a certain pearl color pattern the face down method is needed.

As for super duper super air tight lines I agree with Dennis. Nothing on earth as a visual image looks like CNC tightness. There is always shading, black lines, visually appearing gaps, etc..
The key is clean cutting smoothness more then tightness. Lack of proper blade tension, use of glues that dry goopy or soft and not hard, all have a HUGE impact on cutting cleanness. Of course tightness matters a lot to an extent, but in my opinion the cuts you have going are fine, and more natural. Look at a picture of a real rose. look at all the black in it or dark areas. You would be surprised.

Of course this is just me rambling. Everyone else here has added just as valid comments.
Good luck.
Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

Wow, great advice guys, thanks! Some freakin' cool inlays too.

I think I see the logic behind making the lines more prominent. I'll see what I can do.

Definitely start looking at your inlays as art first inlay second, never forget the guitar comes first (sometimes that's easy to do), and make sure when adding lines or widening effects to do it with engraving more then cutting if that's your speed, engraving those details affords way more control over the detail process. Some can do a great job using a blade, but it's becomes very clear at the high end who is and who is not taking the extra time.
And remember- this is fun. Don't stress out over it. That's my job..




Craig

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www.handcraftinlay.com

Hey Chris...I'm not so sure about that. If you are truly trying to eliminate filler lines & make everything perfect, then this means that you would have minimal clearance between the shell assembly & the pocket....certainly no more than about .003 per side. If the geometry of the design is such that one piece positively locates the next (and there is virtually no clearance between these parts), then you should be fine. Otherwise, the challenge is to arrange those shell pieces & glue them within .003" of their ideal position. In a simple case for 6 parts...this means you only have an average window of error of .0005 (1/2 thou) per part. It would be pretty difficult to line up relatively freeform shapes up within this tolerance.

With regard to spruce...it's soft enough that it allows more margin of error than fingerboard woods (the inlay can more easily be pressed into position).

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Maybe I could machine a mirror image pocket. Wax it. Assemble the pieces face down.

If you machine cut the pearl, then you just machine cut the pocket to match (with a router you'll have enough slop if you machine two perfectly matching pockets that they'll drop in). No need to pre-assemble if the hole matches the pieces, because they can't go in wrong with a tight pocket.

If you hand cut the pieces, then you've probably got to pre-assemble the pieces to trace for either a machine or hand-cut pocket. The machine pocket will be cleaner if you've got a good reverse-engineering process.

I'm quite fond of leaving the pocket wood as the lines between inlay pieces, so I can control the exact line thickness. It's a really nice effect compared to lines of filler, if you've got the gear to do it. I have to program the slop into the pockets on the Fadal so I can get some glue under them. I agree with Craig that, for interior lines, engraving affords a level of control on fine lines that sawing doesn't, so I engrave any lines thinner than 0.020" or so but cut through to the backer for anything thicker.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

All mine was hand cut, and I had to glue the parts up and trace the pieces, then route. I can tell you that Spruce can be a real joy to route. The stuff just furs up and makes it murder to see(I actually resorted to cutting the pattern full depth with a blade, then routing and chiseling back to the edges). It is also not very forgiving, in the sense that you can't fill in any slightly large gaps around the inlay as easily as with Ebony or a darker wood.

I really haven't had enough practice to become good at inlay, so I am not sure what the best methods are. I only know what I have used up to this point, and that it is a lot of fun.

Rich

I hear you...none of this stuff is easy....!

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

For hand cutting complicated multi-part inlays I use the 'window' method. Start with a piece of veneer of the same material as your background.Glue a reversed printout of the design you'll be inlaying to back side. Cutout the largest or most central piece of the drawing, through the veneer, to make a 'window'. Turn the veneer over and use the 'window' to locate the proper spot to cut the piece to fit into it. Scribe the outline of the window onto the piece of shell, cut it out, and put it into the window, using a small scrap of paper on the drawing side and a drop of CA as a bandage to hold it in. Cut out the piece next to the one you just put in, cut and fit the shell to that opening in the same way. Each new piece can be dressed to the exact shape to fit using a diamond file. When you get all of the pieces in you'll have a mess on the back side, and the inlay, just as you'll se it and with a level surface, on the front. Glue a single piece of paper to the front of the inlay, using whatever sort of CA you think will work best. Sand all the paper off the back, and level it up. Cut away the veneer around the inlay, and you will have a single piece, of uniform thickness, ready to scribe around and set in. note that you can also assemble the inlay on a curved surface, if it's going into a fingerboard, say.

The two advantages of this method are that you get to see things as they will look, and you can fit things as tightly as you want without worrying too much about the cut wandering a little. On a complex piece such as your lotus one mis-cut part can throw everything off, if you cut them seperately. With this method you just fit it and cut the next one. The result might not be as exact as CNC, but it can be just as nice, and perhaps more 'arty', since you can make changes on the fly to take advantage of (or minimize the problems with) the materials you have.

Finally got this one assembled. It was pretty much as hard to pull off as I expected. It would have been a lot harder with out the input from you guys. Thanks again.

Now that is one impressive package. You even found a pick up manufacturer with the same last name. . Seriously, WOW. Whoever's hand's that ends up in will be one happy camper!

Cheers,
Danny

Amazing finish there Sheldon!

Not an easy thing to do with a name like "Dingwall"

I want one

Awesome finish and nice inlay. I love the style and staining.
keep it up!

Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I assemble face down on clear packing tape (no glue up of the assembly the tape holds the pieces) I then cut the tape flush to the assembly. after the assembly is tack glued to bottom of the pocket and dry enough I take an exacto blade and remove the packing tape.

Just to reinforce the process described by Anthony and Craig, I just finished the inlay and engraving class taught by Grit Laskin at the Marc Adams School of Woodworking last week. The way Grit taught us was to assemble the inlay on sticky-side-up masking tape, but face up, covering all the joints with black dyed epoxy. Then inlay to slightly less than the depth of your thinnest piece and sanding the inlay level. If you assemble face down (and rout to the depth of the thickest piece), the piece may not be supported fully (air pocket or slightly rubbery epoxy). If you are not engraving, that may not be a problem. The black epoxy in the joints helps to define (if that is what you want). Grit said that, if the joint is too tight, he often will define the joint line with his graver and fill with his filler (the waxy crayon stuff).

By the way, for anyone wanting to take their inlays to the next level with one-on-one instruction by an incredible artist and guitar maker, I highly recommend the class.

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Kevin Mason
Mason Guitars and Ukuleles on Facebook
http://masonguitars.net

w-o-w !!
Now that is one beautiful bass!
And that finish--maybe the coolest I've seen.

Really sweet Sheldon!

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com