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| Author: | cranium [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | types of glue |
Hi , I'm a newbie here and would like your opinion on glue. I have heard many different types of glues used for guitar building from epoxy to elmers carpenters glue ( PVA) and hyde glue. what is the glue of choice? I would appreciate any feed back. Thanks |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Different parts, different glues. Most of us have upwards of 8 or more various adhesives in our shops..... |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Hi Cranium (nice screen name) welcome to the OLF, any chance we can get you to give us your real name? We had this same question just two weeks ago. Take a look here for the discussion. Again, welcome here. Let us know what you'll be building, what types of material etc... we love all that detail 
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Welcome to the OLF Cranium! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations")
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| Author: | cranium [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
My real name is Paul and I am starting to build a steel sting acoustic jumbo size. I have extreme bearclaw spruce for the top and black walnut for the back and sides, and I am using birdseye maple for the neck with ebony finger board. I am ready to start putting the top and back halfs together but I not sure of the glue to use. I am a pattern maker/moldmaker by trade and I also am building a 28' sailboat, so I am very aware of the uses of epoxy (west system in general). I am just not sure which way to go with a guitar, this my first build and I dont want to screw it up before I even really start. Paul |
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| Author: | Guest [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
I would recommend using Titebond Original (not 1 or two) for all the joints on your first guitar. Ideally, I think using Hot Hide Glue for the bracing, bridge plate, and bridge is ideal but you are going to have enough things to learn on your first way thru - also, it is extremely unlikely that your will have the building skills at this point to make the type of glue you are using a major player in the quality of the sound. You can still build an incredible sounding instrument with Titebond. If you have experience with epoxy, then I would recommend that for attaching the fretboard to the neck - if you aren't setup correctly to prevent backbow (sometimes caused by PVA glues) during the gluing process, then epoxy will help prevent that. Luthier's Mercantile also sells a PVA glue that dries slightly harder than Titebond - I am currently using this glue on all my guitars for the bracing and bridge. You might look into trying this for the bracing, bridgeplate, and bridge. It doesn't seem to have as long an open time as Titebond. Best of luck, Simon |
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| Author: | Guest [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
That should be Titebond Original - not 2 or 3. -- Simon |
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| Author: | Anthony Lembo [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
/agree with Simon Titebond will give you extra open time (as compared to hot hide glue) for general assembly. Unless you have previous experience with it, HHG may be a tough one to deal with for a first instrument. If you go the Titebond route, it's generally a good idea to get the freshest (within the past 6 months) bottle possible. If I remember correctly, the date code goes something like this: First number = last digit of year Second "number" (letter actually) = month "I" is skipped For example, 5J512H was manufactured in September of 2005. I think it was Mario (grumpy) that mentioned at one point that he stays away from bottles manufactured during any time of the year that the bottles could have been on a truck and froze. Good point. Like Mario mentioned, there are plenty of applications for other adhesives in the shop - cyano or epoxy for inlay, polyurethane for jigs etc... Anthony |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Or..... there is a school of thought that diving right into using HHG as early as possible for many of the things that are not difficult to use it for is a good way to go. Possible "easy" applications include gluing all of the braces on the top and back, bridge plates, bridges, and joining plates. In fact for joining plates not only is it easy to use it is clearly the superior glue to use IMHO. Mario got JJ into this camp very early on and the more I think about it there is really no reason why someone with some wood working experience could not start using HHG with the first guitar for things mentioned above. I know, I know - this is a change of tune for me having previously advocated Titebond or LMI white for early builds but Mario and JJ have me now convinced that I too could have benefited from the superior sonic properties (it dries harder then all other glues except perhaps Fish glue) earlier then I did. There are some tutorials in the toot section of the OLF that will help demystify how easy HHG is to use. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
I agree, HHG is not that hard to work with. It is not mysterious, you just have to work a little more quickly, and plan ahead for all your joints you are going to use it on. It's sort of a "Just Do It" kind of thing. I also used fish glue a good bit in my build, for attaching linings, the back, the neck joint and a couple of other places where joining was slow. It is, in my opinion, a really good glue. Oh! It was my first build. |
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| Author: | cranium [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Thanks for all the info guys, appreciated. Just out of curiosity what is wrong with titebond 2 or 3? Paul |
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| Author: | Anthony Lembo [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Paul - If I remember correctly, the big issue with the type's 2 and 3 is creep. Waddy and Hesh both have good points regarding HHG. It's not difficult, just more planning. Like many things in this craft/art/obsession etc., there are many ways to get the job done, and twice as many opinions about them. Anthony |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
In general, I fit the glue to the application with a few parameters: Adhesion (different glues stick better/worse to different materials) Gap Filling (not something I consider since the CNC, but certainly a consideration in hand-work) Wicking (CA's wonder-property makes it the ideal inlay glue for well-fit inlay) Staining (I'd use CA anywhere I use hide if it didn't leave dark stains on some woods) Open/Clamp Times (I hate leaving stuff clamped up forever, so I rarely use long setting glues if I can avoid it) Messiness (I rarely use Titebond because the stuff's a mess compared to most other glues) Reversibility (Hide is wonderfully reversible, Titebond is OK, epoxy is a bit of a pain, and CA is a big pain unless you love acetone) Water Content (water + dry wood = wet wood = movement) Hide glue is my go-to if I'm sticking headplates on a run of necks, it's pretty great being able to slap one on, hold it for 30-45 seconds, then set it aside and get onto the next one. If you're kickin' it old school and using some sort of glued neck joint then the guy who needs to reset the neck will thank you for using hide glue there (he'll thank you more for using mechanical fasteners, though). CA is the best for inlay if your pockets aren't sloppy, if they are then you can use dyed epoxy or CA+wood dust. Titebond has that open time thing which makes laminating a neck a lot safer, and I'll have to put up with the stuff until I get my super-speedy laminate-clamper built so I can use a faster glue  .
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| Author: | Claire [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Welcome to the OLF cranium.... Fun name. Why not try both glue types in one build and see how you feel about them? Tite bond is good for quick things if you don't want to mess around heating up a glue pot for something simple. Hide glue isn't that hard to use , it slips less under clamping pressure that titebond if you're careful, and if you make a mistake  you can just undo it, clean it up and start again.  If you use hide glue don't use the pre mixed stuff. Have fun. Cheers, Claire |
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| Author: | SkyHigh [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
Anthony Lembo wrote: / If you go the Titebond route, it's generally a good idea to get the freshest (within the past 6 months) bottle possible. If I remember correctly, the date code goes something like this: First number = last digit of year Second "number" (letter actually) = month "I" is skipped For example, 5J512H was manufactured in September of 2005. I think it was Mario (grumpy) that mentioned at one point that he stays away from bottles manufactured during any time of the year that the bottles could have been on a truck and froze. Good point. Anthony WOW! Is this for real? So I guess it's not good to have extra bottles of titebond around. I'm curious to how many others use this outling of 6months. Can someone esle chime in. thank you, David |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: types of glue |
David I do. I purchase my Titebond where I am likely to get a fresh batch (high turnover - Wood Craft has been good for this) and I am mindful of the date code. I also use a Sharpie and write when I purchased the bottle on the bottle. I won't use it if it is more than 6-9 months old but I will use it for jigs that I never build after that. |
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