You know I was thinking........
(danger Will Robinson....) and I am wondering why you could not purchase two stock cauls and braze then together and cut off the excess ends?
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| Fretting Help Needed... http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16846 |
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| Author: | Brad Way [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fretting Help Needed... |
I am in the process of fretting the 5 string bass I am building. One thing is clear....I have much to learn about fretting. So here are a few questions.... 1) What radius do you typical pre-bend the fret wire to? 2) I know many people press frets in. I am making my life difficult by using a fret hammer? 3) If I do press the frets in where can I get a fret caul for my drill press that is 3" wide? (Stew Mac's are only 2 1/2 wide) Any other words of advice are much appreciated. Thanks! |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
Hi Brad: I pre-radius my fret wire to a radius that is beyond/tighter then radius of the fret board that I am using. the reason for this is that a tighter radiused fret makes it easier to tonk down the ends first. I press at times and I hammer at times and in either case step one for me is to tonk the ends down of the fret wire first so that they stay in place when pressing or hammering. When hammering the fret wire has a tendency when smacking the center area to try to lift the ends and kill the radius in the wire. So this is why I seat the ends first. I don't know what the pre-radius that I use is but is is quite a bit tighter than the fret board's radius. Personally I prefer pressing frets in and a trick that David Collins taught me is to use a caul that is one radius tighter then the fretboard when fretting a bound fret board. This forces the ends down, where there is no tange and they over lap the binding very well and works like a charm. For example on a 16" radius fret board I press with a 14" caul. Hammering gets great results too provided that you well seat the ends first and be mindful to not over smack the middle area beyond just what is necessary to seat the fret. Hitting the center area to hard can dislodge the ends, remove the radius in the wire, and make life tough for you. Sorry on the third part of your question - I am not aware of a source for 3" fret cauls. Good luck my friend. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
Mostly a repeat of what Hesh said. When hammering, I prefer a heavy-headed claw hammer to any of the little brass and/or plastic hammers. I think if you have control of the hit then having a little inertia lends itself to a better seating. I could make a longer brass or aluminum caul for you, but it would be very far from cheap so my recommendation would be to sand out a hardwood caul using the fretboard as a form/block and use that. It'll last for quite some time. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
You know I was thinking........ (danger Will Robinson....) and I am wondering why you could not purchase two stock cauls and braze then together and cut off the excess ends?
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
I use this hammer, and it works much, much better for me than the StewMac type hammer. It's a small dead blow with interchangeable faces of different hardnesses. I love it. I got it at hammersource.com, and the brand name of the hammer is Vaughan. If your fret slots are cut properly, you don't have to hit hard. "Tapping" the frets in is a good way to think of it. With a dead blow hammer like this, it's very easy. |
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| Author: | Todd Mylet [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
I agree with Todd's advice. I've found that one of the most important factors in setting frets is having the proper ratio of fret slot width to fret tang/barb size. It's tricky because the same fret that fits perfect in an Indian Rosewood board will often be too tight in an ebony board with the same width of fret slot. When you get the formula right, hammering in frets isn't too difficult. When the formula is off, it can be a real bear. Stew-Mac's fret tang crimper is great for fret tangs that are too narrow for the slot. For slots that are too narrow, I'll either widen the slot with a fretting saw, mash the barbs flat on the frets, or file the fret tang smaller. In general, I prefer hammering in fret to pressing. I've never had much luck with pressing, though I know many people get good results with presses. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
Hesh wrote: You know I was thinking........ (danger Will Robinson....) and I am wondering why you could not purchase two stock cauls and braze then together and cut off the excess ends?Alignment issues out the kazoo! Hesh buddy you would need some sort of fixture to assure the radii and of the center of the torus of the two cauls would remain true position and then there is the issue of heat distortion from the brazing. The braze joint will want to draw up causing the caul to want to warp in particularly in the torus its self. Then third issue of when with the two cauls aligned at true position on center of the torus, then flats at the top of the cauls are now at a slight angle to each other. Definition: torus A circular tube extruded around a central axis to form a donut like shape i.e. the shape of the crown recess in the caul is a segment of a torus |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
I've never used a dead blow, but that Vaughan one looks pretty good - I may have to try one of those out. For hammering I use a brass hammer that I made about 15 years ago. Probably weighs in at the 14oz range, and since it's not a dead blow I always pull away from the initial strike to avoid the double bounce. If cauls aren't available wide enough you could certainly just hammer them in. I start with over-radiused wire, but not too dramatically. I don't know the numbers but there should at least be a small gap in the center when the ends are resting in the slot, but I don't like to see a center gap when the ends are seated if that helps. If you do want to press, making radius cauls is not a huge deal. If you have router table or any kind of radius jig for a router, it's not too difficult to make an arm or jig of sorts to cut a radius in a piece of 1/8" brass. Still, unless you plan on needing this setup regularly I would just hammer them in. |
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| Author: | Bob Long [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
If you're going to use a hammer you already have around (like a claw hammer)... go through all the sandpaper grits on the striking surface until you get a nice chrome-looking face. It shouldn't take more than a couple minutes. It'll save you a bunch of time and grief cleaning up the frets. This is also a good idea if you're gonna drive finish nails... Do people still do that??? long |
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| Author: | jhowell [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
That small dead blow is a good looking hammer. About all I can add is that I use a 25 lb. bag of 7 1/2 bird shot to back up the neck. Its the old Winchester chilled lead. Found a sporting goods store using two of them for door stoppers (as steel shot is used today) and got them for $10 each. Highly recommended! |
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| Author: | Brett L Faust [ Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting Help Needed... |
When pressing in your frets on a wide fretboard,try walking a caul across the fretboard .Half tapping in one side,fully seating the other and then returning to fully seat the first side.You won't kink your wire if you do it that way. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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