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Body Done
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16859		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Body Done
My OM Martin body is done. Moving on to the neck. Anybody know why the finger board is more narrow than the neck? Is binding supposed to go along the finger board?

Mike
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Mike bro you gotta know that we all like pics here (since some of us can't read....) so if you have a digital camera how about some pics please? Congrats on finishing the body! [:Y:]

Chris is right-on as usual and Mario just commented on this in the last couple of days. He said that the curvature of the fretboard is continued through the sides of the neck for a smooth transition. To accomplish this the neck starts out wider and we shape it for a nice transition and feel.

What I did when I started was find a guitar that I liked the neck on and I transfered the neck profile(s) to templates and then used them for shaping.

I bind my fret boards even if it is an ebony fret board and I am using ebony binding. I think that it looks nicer since it is difficult to completely fill the exposed fret ends and you always run the risk too of some future owner of the guitar drying it out to much and having the fret ends push out what ever you used to fill the ends. Binding the fret board solves this potential issue.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Otay, was being seriously lazy. Will post pics tomorrow evening. Gotta say that I am rather proud of my body (eh... the guitar that is :oops: ). Will get some neck shots in also.

Seems that RW dust affects my thinking. However, the thickness leftover for shaping seems extreme. Thus the binding question.

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
OK, here are some pics.

Mike
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Looking good!
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Dry Fit
Doing the dry fit with the neck. Nothing has been adjusted (sanded, shaped, etc). I just put the neck in the block and took pics of how things lined up. I would like some comments on the heel, and the rosette. Will the fret board come in far enough to cover those areas lacking full inlay? What happens from here? What am I trying to do? What should I do? I am reviewing the manual. Should the male part of the dovetail joint butt up to the block? When done, should the neck be flush with the top (my guess, yes). Thanks all. Sorry for the gratutitious dry fit body with bridge... could not help myself!

Mike
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Mike this is looking REALLY good! You need to change your screen name to gifted Mike!

I can't see the nut end of the fret board but I suspect that once you have the nut installed it will push the fret board down to cover more of the rosette. Also the 14th fret, if this is a 14 fretter, will be more in line with the body which is a traditional thing to shoot for.

The back of the dove tail should not come into contact with the back of the joint or it would inhibit your ability to fit the dove tail snugly when the neck is level with the top - which BTW is correct that is what you want.

It all looks great to me - very clean and neat - precise work. You are doing a GREAT job my friend!!!! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Hesh,

Thanks so much! I'd show you my first attempt, but... nah. I really need a compressed air source to clean out all the dust.

So, this is a matter of trimming the neck till the 14th comes into line? Makes sense. Looks like a lot of trimming. Gona wait till I hear more.

Mike

PS: "Slackkey" does not mean what it sounds. It refers to a kind of folk music played in the Hawaiian islands... "Slack Key"... see taropatch.net, one of my other hangouts. ;)
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
One more thing. I am thinking of chucking the plastic binding and the plastic end piece (and heel piece). Any ideas on a wooden substitute?

This thing is too pretty to use the plastic. (MHO)

Mike
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Sure - maple would look great for binding and you can use a heal plate to match the back and sides wood. Lots of different binding would look great. The butt wedge could also be maple if you like the look.

I am not sure what you started with, a kit, which kit, or from scratch. Some kits have the nut installed on the flat of the neck and some have it installed on the 15 degree back angle of the head stock. Check this out and you may find that extra 1/4" that will move the fret board to cover your rosette gaps and align the 14th fret at the body joint.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
OK Hesh, source me the binding material!

Gonna cut that plastic end piece out too.

Mike (rats, I still don't have a jig for cutting the binding slots!)
Author:  Chansen [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
That thing is looking pretty sharp! You are coming along really quickly - do you have plans for # 2 already? By the way, I got the name reference and I was going to ask you about tunings for slack key. I haven't found too many references for it but I like the style a lot. Good luck with the rest of your build!
Author:  Chansen [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
slackkey_mike wrote:
OK Hesh, source me the binding material!

Gonna cut that plastic end piece out too.

Mike (rats, I still don't have a jig for cutting the binding slots!)


Oh and as for the routing the bindings... There is a ton of info throughout the archives about it. I ended up using a gramil to score the top and back purfling ledge and then just using a chisel to route it out. The back was a lot harder than the top (obviously) with the chisel but it ended up working ok. I then used Kinkade's router method and it worked great. Reasons I did this instead of the more common jigs on the forum is because I only had a full size router and didn't really have the time or supplies to make the jigs necessary even if I had a trim router. Others might chime in if for some reason this isn't a good idea, but it worked well for me.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Mike for maple bindings, or any bindings try Uncle Bob at http://www.rctonewoods.com
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Mike .. looking at pix 328 and 326, the 14th fret should sit directly over the heel/body joint (not the dovetail, thats more in the 15ht fret area). This should then move the end of the FB over the rosette joints. As for the heel and its cap, i like to cut the heel cap at 5 degrees, thus the hell cap tilts towards the back of the neck a bit, away from the arch of the back. I dont like the look of guitars where the heel is square (ie parallel tot he FB, and thus ramps up from the back - it destroys the line creatred by the backs arch. This is easy to do with a block plane. Continually fit the neck on, and see that you are staying square to the binding ledge or the binding if you have already put it on while doing this. I also like the heel cap to end somewhere in the middle of the binding as far as length of the heel goes. You can also if feeling adventurous add between the heel cap and the neck the same purf scheme you use as a side purf, and get it all to line up .. takes some judicious fitting with the plane to get it just right, but it looks very cool once done.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Chansen wrote:
That thing is looking pretty sharp! You are coming along really quickly - do you have plans for # 2 already? By the way, I got the name reference and I was going to ask you about tunings for slack key. I haven't found too many references for it but I like the style a lot. Good luck with the rest of your build!


Christian,

The best site for Hawaiian Slack Key tunings and info is taropatch.net. Slack tunings are used in folk music (and rock for that matter also). But really, when someone says "slack" they are referring to Hawaiian type folk music.

Maybe one day I will post some of my playing...

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Tony,

It sounds like you are saying to shave the edges back that I circled below until the 14th fret sits over the body... is that correct?

Mike
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Mike buddy this might be helpful to you and assist Coach Tony in what he is saying here. This is from Stew-Mac's guitar kit instructions.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
No Mike .. more what Hesh is saying in the pix, but without seeing the whole fB/neck combo, its tough to see what exactly is going on. I would suspect that as its a kit, the neck needs some final fitting to get right, but the FB 14th fret slot should sit right at the neck body joint, or slightly behind, as to leave a bit of fitting room on the heel cheeks, but the nut should be pretty much right on . I wouldnt think you need to make any adjustments at the other end. So, when the nut is in place, and then the FB is tight to the nut, where does the 14th fret slot sit in relation to the necks dovetail ???
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
If you will look at the pics above, the fretboard is held in place by the location pins (two of them). Leaves a bit of room near the peghead for the nut. So in the pics, where the fretboard is over the top, there is a bit of space between the end of the fretboard and the unfinished rosette. The 14th fret sits away from the top by about 0.5 to 0.6 inches.

I just do not see how this can work. Perhaps I have the wrong neck & fretboard?? It is a Martin OM kit (from bluescreek).

When I glued the top, I used 1/4" dowels in the neck block & top to locate it.

It is what it is. No amount of trimming is going to fix this!

Mike
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Sorry, but in the pix I cant see any pins ...

But .. what is the distance from the neck/body joint to your soundhole edge ??? If its 3 7/8 to 4 inches, then thats about right for a 14 fret, 25.4 scale, 20 fret neck, and the FB should reach the soundhole egde to cover the rosette joint (I use 3 7/8 for this measure on all of my 14 fret 25.4s) If its much over that .. well ... hmm, not sure what to do but use a longer fb. That of course assumes the 14th is right at the body joint - if its not, then something else is screwy ....
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
I circled the pin on the bottom of the neck, there is one further up the neck also.

I think I have a neck/fb mixup with regards to scale length.

Mike
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
I figured that was a locator for the neck to fit a jig on the CNC .. not sure its for aligning the FB on the neck, although it could be.

So did you measure the body joint to soundhole edge ??? what is it ???

A 25.4 scale FB will be 357.8mm nut to 14 (14.0856 inches)
A 24.9 scale FB will be 350.7mm nut to 14 (13.8083 inches)

the neck, assuming the nut sits on the flat, not the headstock angle, will then need to be about 3/16 or so longer than the nut to 14 measure. If the nut is on the angle then it needs to be pretty close to the nut to 14 distance.

So what do you have, neck and FB ???
Author:  JRHall [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
You have a miss-match with you neck and fingerbaord. You have a long scale neck (OM) and a short scale fingerboard (000). Whoever you got the kit from inadvertently put the wrong fingerboard in. Let them know and I'm sure they will make it right. Whatever you do, don't do any fitting until you have the right fingerboard.

Jim Hall
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Body Done
Tony, Jim,

I am on my way home right now. When I get there, I will measure and report back. Jim, I agree... its the only thing that makes sense. Glad I dry fitted before fretting and other stuff!

Mike
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