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First build critique?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16891		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dan Gunderson [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  First build critique?
Hi folks I just got the strings put on my first build, and have the action set to where I think I can call it "done".
Took me about 8 months or so of sporadic work in the evenings and on weekends.
I did a lot of lurking and reading and learning here, as I worked through the process, so I thought I'd post a photo or two.
Thanks for looking!

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Front view. Sitka top, french polish with amber shellac. herringbone purfling and curly koa bindings.
I was working from the Don MacRostie Herringbone dread plan, but I ended up doing the forward shifted X-brace, kind of on a whim. Since this is my first, I don't have much to compare it with, but this thing is LOUD, even with light strings.

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Back view. Some nice East Indian rosewood. Neck is mahogany, carved from scratch. The neck carving was the hardest part by far, but in the end I think it came out pretty good.

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Closeup of the back.

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Here's a close-up of the bridge and saddle. Bridge is ebony, and the nut and saddle from a moose bone that a friend gave to me.

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Here's the headstock inlay, with figured MOP. I wish I had done a better job on the routing, but I still like the way it looks overall.

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And the back of the headstock. I'm really pretty happy with the way the neck came out, especially that neck volute.

I've got the whole build process more or less chronicled on my website here.
I haven't yet started on #2...maybe soon I'll be able to put this one down long enough to get back into the shop.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
humm the image did not come through at lease for me.
Author:  grumpy [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Looks good.

Two things caught my eye immediately.

a) the headstock inlays are out of place on that nice, angular headstock. There's no color to the shell, no rhyme or reason to it(IE: it's not a torch, not a Celtic knot, not nothing) and everything is round and soft, while the headstock is nice and angular. One fights the other. And while the rest of the guitar looks well done and very tight, we see a lot of filler and gaps in the headstock inlays. It takes away from the whole at this point.

b) the volute, while nicely carved, is too fat. It looks like a big 'ol, short and stubby nose. Again, it's out of proportion to the rest.
Author:  Dan Gunderson [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
heh, dang grumpy, I knew I could count on you for some constructive criticism!
Actually, the point about the headstock inlay is well taken. I was going for something *akin* to a torch style, but didn't want to just do a straight ahead torch. I did the routing by hand with a dremel, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep from wandering. This is definitely an area where I'll need to take extra care next time.
Also, that picture is terrible, I actually used some pretty nicely figured MOP, which I got from Mr. DePaule. At the right angle it shimmers with color, and I was able to match the figure to the contours of the inlay in some respects.

I do appreciate the critique though.
I'm frequently humbled by the excellent work I see you all doing.
Author:  martinedwards [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Yup, what Grumpy says is true, but for a first build?

that guitar looks GREAT!!

well done!!!
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
must be a firewall issue, the picture link must be from a personal web site gaah Oh well
Author:  Peter Pii [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Nicely Done!
Carving a neck for a #1 indicates that you are very brave indeed. Good on ya!!
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Nice job Dan - great guitar! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

And the finish looks excellent as well - no easy task on your first - very well done.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Really well done for a first. Never attempted this type of inlay myself - but I guess you would have more control with handtools? Scalpel, 1 or 2mm chisel ?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Looks great for a first, to me.
Author:  Jody [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Looks nice too me too , for a first build ,, if you laminated the headstock you could easily remove it and try again! If the guitar sounds nice and the rest of it looks great to me ... you might want to upgrade your inlays .. anyways whatever it looks nice for a first build ! Jody
Author:  Chansen [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Looks good to me! I spent quite a while looking at your website and build process. I like the fact that you took on so many things from scratch including the bone. You should be proud of your first build - Congrats!
Author:  Darren W [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Dan,
Looks great to me buddy! All these amazing first builds are so humbling. Great job, man!

Darren
Author:  Danny R. Little [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Looks good to me for a 1st build. I'm not sure I would have attached the wheel barrow whammy bar at the 12th fret, though.

Danny R. Little
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
It's not the routing of the inlays that is the problem, but the glue or filler that you used. It is tinted too dark so it stands out in contrast to the ebony and there are lots of gaps in the glue. Did you use CA or epoxy glue? What kind? Did you add a lot of saw dust or something else to the glue? Ebony is pretty forgiving of routing gaps and if you use the properly tinted glue, you can make it almost disappear.

Overall, this guitar is a really good 1st effort. Keep up the good work.
Author:  Dan Gunderson [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Thanks everyone!

Barry, I did use CA (some off brand, not the expensive stuff) and ebony dust to do the fill around the inlay.
I'm not sure if the CA shrank, or if I just wasn't careful enough when filling it. At any rate, in retrospect, I should have gone back and done another filling to get those gaps but....live and learn.
For some reason, everything is much more glaring in that photo than in real life.
I should learn to take more flattering pictures!

Thanks again everyone for the encouragement, guess I'll go get started on #2.
Author:  Anthony Z [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Dan for a first you should be very proud particularly as from your description it projects well and probably sounds good as well. Starting with the positive, you nailed a lot of stuff that is tough on a #1, nice fitting neck, well executed binding/purfling and a good finishing job.

I am with some of the others in that the inlay doesn't do the rest of your excellent work justice. The headstock plate can be easily removed with the application of a hot iron and since you FP'd it the ensuing touch up should be straight forward.

Question, did you use V joint for the headstock. If so, my hats off to you as it looks like it fits nicely.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Speaking as a guy still making his first guitar, WELL DONE DAN!!! [:Y:] [clap] [:Y:] [clap] [:Y:]
I'm sure you learned a whole lot from this build. Hope you're going to make more?.......

Wait till you guys see the closeups of my first.....the small build issues that y'all noticed in Dan's pale into insignificance by comparison. gaah

For example - while routing the headplate outline with a template, the height adjustment on my router wasn't tight so the bit gradually crept out until the point where the bearing wasn't running on the template any more, whereupon it bit hard into the side of the headstock, then caught and gashed the top plate as I reacted! Net result = one ruined headstock! oops_sign There's more, but I'll put it in my own thread instead of hijacking Dan's! :lol:

Dave F.
Author:  David R White [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Nice guitar, much nicer than my first. But since you're asking for criticism...I think the body shape is a little funny, particularly the section where the neck joins looks too flat.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Great job!
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
For a first build, you should be proud. Very nice classic looking dred
Enjoy it
Well Done
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Congratulations on completing your first guitar Dan!
Just a few minor details to touch up and you've got a real nice drednaught!
Inlays are difficult at first so just take your time when routing and don't try
to hog off too much at once. Nice job carving your first neck. What are you
planning for your next?
Author:  Dan Gunderson [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Thanks again everyone.

Anthony: I didn't do a v-joint for the neck, just a regular scarf joint.
I did try to do my best to emulate what would have been left if I had done the V-joint though.

Maybe I will get ambitious enough to steam off that headstock veneer and try again someday.
But part of me also thinks that I should just leave it as a reminder of where I need to make improvements.

As for the next build...I have a 2-year old daughter who likes to "help out" in the shop.
I've promised her her own guitar someday, and have been considering something along the lines of the 3/4 size style-5.
I've got some inexpensive wood laying around, and figure I could make something that I wouldn't be worried about her beating up too much.
Though I've read here that people say that kids grow out of those 3/4 size guitars too quick and it may not be worth it...
Haven't made up my mind on that one yet.
I'd also like to try my hand at a slot head...maybe a mahogany parlor-style?
Author:  grumpy [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Ack! Don't use steam to remove a headplate veneer! Just place a (dry) iron on it, and let it warm up for 3-4 minutes, it'll then peel right off....

But yes, leave it there. It's not bad enough to necessitate a change; you asked for a --critique--, and I pointed it out.

I'd also like to see you move the pickguard on your next ones much closer t the bridge. For many, if not most, players, your pickguard lends zero protection where it is.
Author:  Dan Gunderson [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First build critique?
Thanks once again grumpy.
Makes sense to keep the steam away from the neck.

Many thanks everyone, I certainly appreciate the opinions/advice/encouragement.

-Dan
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