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How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
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Author:  ChuckH [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
What is it that tells you a laminate trimmer or dremel has more power? Is it the Watts or the Amps? I have two dremels, one is the old MultiPro single speed 1.15 amps and the other one I have is the Dremel Advantage with varible speed and 4.5 amps. Will the Advantage be good enough for routing out the binding? It has a 1/4" collet. I know by reading on here that the old single speed MultiPro doesn't have enough power to rout the bindings.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Chuck buddy I don't know how Dremels and Laminate trimmers are rated but I can tell you that most folks here seem to greatly prefer a laminate trimmer for cutting binding channels.
Author:  gozierdt [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Chuck,
Most of the laminate trimmers are around 5.5-5.6 amps, so the bigger Dremel you mentioned is probably OK from a power perspective. You'll have to figure out how to make a fixture to hold the Dremel, since it doesn't seem to have a flat base like the laminate trimmers. But if you do that, I think you'll be fine. The laminate trimmers don't bog down much at all when trimming for binding ledges, so it's not a high-power activity.
Author:  stan thomison [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
can you do the channels with a dremel and others sure. Will it be more of a hassle maybe, can you get a trimmer for price of full dremel kit, yes, probably. Should you have that ability, should you spend just a little more for a trimmer for sure yes.

Do you need a trimmer for other things like cutting rosette channels, lining for brace tucks for sure no. I have gone to the foredom for most stuff used to do with the dremel, and now thinking of going to the air grinder.

The question is what can you or how much do you want to spend for your shop, how fast you want to do stuff, how much time do you want to spend on any particular part of the build. My opinion is if you have it or can save it up in reasonable time to while building go for the best tools for the best results, which may in time be both setus.

You can do them with good chisel and grammel (sp) and other hand tool setups and maybe cheaper than either of the other methods noted. You can , if want in fact do all of it with hand non power tools. That takes some learning curve, but that depends again on your abilities and experience, and how fast you do things.

Most builders with the skills of those methods now use power though, but learning both power and hand (non power) mehtods is good. Lots can do it with no power tools and firmly believe, most if not all the really good pro builders can, but time is money. They can though use the hand tools about as fast as some using power things and get better results. But that is why they are really great pro's, which is not me in the least of the word, I can't carry those guys and gals hand tools, but those guys are active here and to be learned from.

I use more power though. but have a current build using only non power tools. Don't care if it is a learning project for me, but I want to learn more, to make myself a better builder and repair guy. This will be a guitar just for me and sure will make lots of mistakes and start overs, but so be it. I have had though the oppurtunity to use both methods some, and get instruction and or mostly watch from some of the best ( and FOR ME in particuler one of the absolute best, the boss) in this field. So like he has told me, quit worrying about it, figure out the problem and how to do it, and Get r done.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Electrical 101 ...

Volts x Amps = power = watts
IIRC, 746 watts = 1 horsepower.

These numbers do not take into account any losses that will occur in any motor.

For us folk here in North America, volts will be 115-120, depending on what the grid is like in your area.

So you can see that your smaller Dremel has about 1/4 the power of the larger amps one, and most lam trimmers are more powerful than that. A much bigger plus for most lam trimmers is the fact they have larger and better bearings for the shaft/collet to stay running true.
Author:  Daniel M [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Although many folks seem to use Dremels with good success, I for one, will never buy another.
I use my dremel for inlay work & to notch the linings out where the braces are tucked... And that's all. It's just not skookum enough (IMHO) for heavier work
Recently, I set up a guide for my dremel to rout the bottom of a saddle slot for a pickup installation. The dremel did a very ragged job. Seems there's just too much play in the bearings for precision work.
Stick with any brand name lam trimmer & you'll be better off... This is just one opinion. Others may have had better luck with Dremels than I.
The biggest difference between the various laminate trimmers seems to be the base & how easily / accurately they can be adjusted.
Author:  ChuckH [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Thanks everyone for responding. Just what I needed.

Tony, THANK YOU for Electric 101, that was just what I was looking for.

Hope you feller's have an OUTSTANDING week! [:Y:]
Author:  Bobc [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
In my previous life I use to do a lot of Formica work. Cabinets, counter tops and just about anything people wanted laminated. i had at least 5-6 laminate trimmers to avoid all the bit changing. When changed hats to building guitars I bought a dremel cause lot's of folks were using them and attachements were available for binding. My fisrt impression of a dremel was 'This is a toy" 2nd more powerful dremel impression "This is a piece of junk toy" Third and last impression "Can i hit the garbage can without touching the rim" Just my not so humble opinion of the Dremel. [uncle]
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
4.5 amps may be enough power, but you will be wasting a lot of time trying to make a rotary saw into a laminate trimmer. A lot of what distinguishes trimmers and routers is the quality of the base and its adjustments. Plus neither of those Dremels is likely to have the kind of accurate bearings that make for a good lam trimmer. If you pop for the Porter 310 you will never regret it.

Off topic, but since most Dremels are hobbyist machines not suited to a serious shop: my Dremel 732 flex shaft tool has plenty of power (1/5hp) and has served well--as a flex shaft tool. I don't ask it to be a router.
Author:  ChuckH [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Howard Klepper wrote:
4.5 amps may be enough power, but you will be wasting a lot of time trying to make a rotary saw into a laminate trimmer. A lot of what distinguishes trimmers and routers is the quality of the base and its adjustments. Plus neither of those Dremels is likely to have the kind of accurate bearings that make for a good lam trimmer. If you pop for the Porter 310 you will never regret it.

Off topic, but since most Dremels are hobbyist machines not suited to a serious shop: my Dremel 732 flex shaft tool has plenty of power (1/5hp) and has served well--as a flex shaft tool. I don't ask it to be a router.


Good point Howard,
You're right, it is a rotary saw and I didn't think of the bearings. There have been alot of discussion on the subject. Guess I'll spring for a real laminate trimmer, cause I'm not gonna chisel out the channel by hand, not since they invented electricity.
This thing come with a flex shaft too, I might find some use for it.

Thanks Howard
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
ToddStock wrote:
Here's what I look for:

- Bosch label that says Model PR-20
- Ridgid label that says Model R2400
- Porter Cable label that says Model 310

if it has something that looks like 'Dremel' written on it, I take a pass.


Todd, pick your favorite among these.

Mike
Author:  Bobc [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Mike for what it's worth I have PC routers and trimmers still running fine after close to 20 years. Fine tools.

Howard I agree the flex shaft is a useful tool.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
Todd,

I saw on Amazon this one: Bosch PR20EVSK . Is this it? ($99)

Also, they have another with lots of bases for $164. Would I need this stuff, or is the base unit all I need? (
Bosch PR20EVSNK )

Also, what bits, etc for binding slots?

Mike
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell if a Lam Trimmer or Dremel has enough power?
slackkey_mike wrote:

I saw on Amazon this one: Bosch PR20EVSK . Is this it? ($99)

Also, they have another with lots of bases for $164. Would I need this stuff, or is the base unit all I need? (
Bosch PR20EVSNK )

Also, what bits, etc for binding slots?

Mike


I know, I know...I'm not Todd, but if I may...
Yes, that is the Bosch Colt. Its a 1 HP+ laminate trimmer. I use that for most of my LT operations.
I can't afford multiple trimmers of this caliber, so I have been purchasing extra fixed bases for my jigs and just swap the trimmer between them. It works well. The tilt base is especially nice. I don't have a need for the offset guide or the straight edge guide. I have not found a good use for either of these that other tools in my shop don't cover, but it was part of the package, so that just what I have. I don't think I'd get the whole kit again.
Bits for bindings? It depends on what method and what jig. I use a williams style binding jig and have the Stew-mac cutter and bearings. Works like a dream. I used to use a fixed jig that I turned the guitar on, but gave that up. Too many variables for me. I used a nice 1/4" downcut spiral bit in that one.
I'm sure others will chime in here.
-j.
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