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Listen Up!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17034		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Listen Up!
Those of you that know me, either in person or online, know that I seldom to never get involved in rants or arguments. I'm of the strong "different strokes" persuasion. But I've got a pair of grievances to air out here.

For Pete's sake, it's a Dreadnought! not a D and a T and a bunch of *****. Any of you that think it's an inferior instrument REALLY need to spend a weekend, I mean a LONG weekend listening to Tony Rice and you'll change your tune on this fine instrument.

And now we get to The Dark Side. They're called ELECTRIC GUITARS. Set aside your next LONG weekend and listen to Brother Jimi, or Carlos or Duane and FEEL their art.
It's all guitar. It's all music. It's all art. IT"S ALL GOOD.

There. End of rant. I feel better.
-C
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I hate D*********ts. Bland, shapeless, crude, sorry boxes with strings. Yeah, they can keep up with a banjo, but if you're in that company you've already got bigger problems. The rest are used for strumming folk songs in coffee shops, and there are already enough dreads in existence to serve that need for generations.

And you can't tell me you don't think electric guitars aren't a product of the devil, eh?










Yes, I'm joking (mostly). I've never actually censored the word dreadnought before, but tempt me like that and how could I refuse? idunno ;)
Author:  jfrench [ Thu May 01, 2008 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
This would be better off in the off topic area, or at least titled as having something to do with the thread.

At any rate, Dreads are graceless.
Author:  KenH [ Thu May 01, 2008 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
building dreadnaught guitars is what is keeping me in business. I certainly have no problems with them at all. You can look for a few electrics to come from my shop in the near future too.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu May 01, 2008 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
When I posted my thread about building an electric as going to the dark side,
I thought I said it as if it were a good thing.
Did someone miss that?
I'll keep referring to them as such here and on other forums because it is both true and fun.
Author:  Guest [ Thu May 01, 2008 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Sorry, but I Listen-Down.
Author:  Billy T [ Thu May 01, 2008 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
David Collins wrote:
Yeah, they can keep up with a banjo, but if you're in that company you've already got bigger problems.

laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe



David Collins wrote:
And you can't tell me you don't think electric guitars aren't a product of the devil, eh?

I think my favorite term is "tools of the degenerates"! laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  James Orr [ Thu May 01, 2008 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I love the ability of an electric guitar to express thoughts an acoustic just can't . . . and visa versa.

When B.B. King or Roy Buchanan goes to harmonic minor, there's just something about it that stirs me. 2:40-3:15 aren't possible with an acoustic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q85FSZXe_KE

And then there's The Edge, who's helped me hear joyful things I hadn't been able to before, just like all instruments have a way of speaking in unique ways.

But the dark side thing is in fun jest. I get a kick out of it.
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Thu May 01, 2008 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I think it's clear that it's all tongue-in-cheek.

I play and listen to prodominantly fingerstyle blues, but I own and play dreadnoughts and electrics. There is something absolutely magical about the playing of the likes of B.B. King or Buddy Guy and a select few others who play an electric like an extension of their own body that no acoustic guitarist could ever come close to... and vice versa. Some of the most talented artists I know strum chords on a dreadnought. One of the most impressive bands I've ever seen is Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, with Bela of course playing the banjo like you wouldn't believe.

That said, I always see the humour in posts referring disparagingly to dreadnoughts, electrics etc. I can't imagine too many builders of said instruments are losing sleep over any it.
Author:  K.O. [ Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
O come on guys everyone knows it takes a Cello to join up with Darth Vader and his buds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2aIVKp1OY
Author:  Guest [ Thu May 01, 2008 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Hodges_Guitars wrote:
building dreadnaught guitars is what is keeping me in business. I certainly have no problems with them at all.



Spelling? oops_sign idunno
Author:  Colin S [ Thu May 01, 2008 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Several things.

Yes, this should have been posted in the Off Topic section, if rants should be posted at all, especially when it seems they are due to a humour by-pass.

I too think Dreadnoughts are ugly, graceless, things that I personally don't like. I will just about say that some 12 fret, slope shoulder, slot heads can just about be acceptable, but are they really Dreadnoughts? Why don't I like them, probably a lot to do with the music that they are associated with. Yes I went to You-tube and listened to Tony Rice, just confirmed my prejudices. I'm not a bluegrass or country fan, probably something to do with not looking good in a big hat (why is it a rquirement to wear a big black hat, indoors, to play it, or even sometimes to listen?). Coming from an English fingerstyle folk tradition probably taints my tastes, but, my local guitar shop has had just one dreadnought hanging on the wall for years, just can't sell them here so I'm not alone.

As to electric guitars, well since Muddy Waters invented electricity I have to say I quite like the things, in fact I used to play electric a lot both in a blues band and a prog rock band. Still got my '63 Tele, and I'm tempted to have a go and build a hollow body. Yes, quite like electric guitars, (don't like acoustics with pick-ups though).

Colin
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Thu May 01, 2008 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
According to the Oxford American Dictionary, the proper spelling can fall to either dreadnaught or dreadnought for the descriptive term adopted from ship style to guitar style, but who cares.

I love a dreadnaught and am always impressed with their power and volume.

I've built 25 times as many electric guitars as I have acoustics....and I'm going to break 500 acoustics this year and I still play electric more than 90% of the time that I play guitar live. Most of those electric were in the form of finished bodies and necks that went to either customers or other builders back in the 80s.

Ahhhh......Apocalyptica. I've seen them a few times in concert and they're a fun time out. Not always the style music that I prefer, but a very cool twist for the genre and instrumentation.

Electrics and Dreadnaughts.....neither are issues to lose sleep over.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu May 01, 2008 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Lighten up, Dude!

I'll take responsibility for the "Dark Side" comment about electrics. It was a j-o-k-e!!! [headinwall]

Dreds have an OLF history of having been demeaned by some. It is silly but folks have every right to be silly but it hasn't yet risen to the level of me going postal.

As far as bluegrass players wearing hats indoors...IMO, it's no more silly than British barristers wearing powdered wigs indoors when legal issues are conducted. laughing6-hehe

...and another thing...I also agree that this should be in the OT section gaah

...over and out!
Author:  Colin S [ Thu May 01, 2008 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
JJ Donohue wrote:
As far as bluegrass players wearing hats indoors...IMO, it's no more silly than British barristers wearing powdered wigs indoors when legal issues are conducted. laughing6-hehe

...



Oh, I agree JJ, they are both extremely silly.
Colin
Author:  Hesh [ Thu May 01, 2008 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Hi....... :D

Obviously you have never done any Internet dating........... gaah The Internet dating sites permit the members to describe their body types and the choices available read like this: parlor, OO, OM, and finally d*eadnought........

It's well known by both men and women who use these sites that people often misrepresent themselves as say an OM when they are in fact a d*eadnought......

Mind you I would never use these sites personally......... but I can fully appreciate how someone who has been terrified by this heinous misrepresentation may harbor a personal aversion to d*eadnoughts......

Now considering the immediate context of this thread and in the spirit of one of our great leaders who said "D*eadnought what your forum can do for you...." I would be willing to personally substitute the word that I use for d*eadnoughts when participating on the OLF.

Perhaps the word manatee would be more acceptable? :D
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Thu May 01, 2008 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I learned to fly a high wing aircraft, so I'm partial to Cessnas.

I learned to build, hovering over a D28 Kit, so I'm partial to Dreds.

It's a great instrument. Is it possible you guys have never built a good one, so you don't understand the love? (grin)

As for electrics, I too am nearing completion of a Fender Tele Clone, and have built a few replacement electric bass necks.

I see beauty and art in all sorts of shapes and sizes, acoustic or electric, it just doesn't matter as long as those who use them, and like them, are willing to pay us to cater to them. And yeah, I've done a lot of this just for fun and love of guitars, without the paycheck.
Author:  Peter Pii [ Thu May 01, 2008 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Take it outside boys beehive
Dreds rule!!!
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu May 01, 2008 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I prefer dreadnaughts, and people who play mostly G, C and D chords (and use capos). I think small bodied guitars and lutes are for men with sensitive tendencies, or women with sensitive tendencies, or maybe the English. This, incidentally, is why Tony Rice plays a dread. Tony Rice is a beer swilling, bar fightin', woman-lovin', flatpicking male (with a ponytail!). Tony is periodically "sensitive", but it's only to make a point, which is allowed.

Fingerstyle instruments are for those that perhaps were coddled by their mothers too much, and periodically seek that kind of childish comfort. You can visit a fingerstyle guitar for a bit, even own one, but it's important to come back to your senses and make up for the fingerstyle experience by playing a dread for awhile. James Taylor plays a fingerstyle guitar. "You've got a friend." 'Nuff said.

Electric guitars rule, except for those gigantic red Gibsons like Brian Setzer plays. Those would be exclusively for male hairdressers, or people with hair like Brian Setzer.

Carry on.
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Thu May 01, 2008 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
JJ,
I thought the "Dark side" joke was a good one. I love my electrics and don't plan on putting them down any time soon.
I've built acoustics for a living since 1992 and have always played my electrics in public.

I've had people criticize the fact that I do play them so much....figure that out....at least I'm playing.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  David Collins [ Thu May 01, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Hesh wrote:
Obviously you have never done any Internet dating........... gaah The Internet dating sites permit the members to describe their body types and the choices available read like this: parlor, OO, OM, and finally d*eadnought........

It's well known by both men and women who use these sites that people often misrepresent themselves as say an OM when they are in fact a d*eadnought......


So you're saying that when someone refers to themselves as a sweet little "hummingbird" or "dove", the charming little name may be a bit misleading? ;)
Author:  Anthony Z [ Thu May 01, 2008 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Chas, no harm done. Hopefully it felt good to get that off your chest. Just goes to show what is funny to one person may hit a hot button for others.

I agree with the others that this kind of discussion belongs in the Off Topics department. Not long ago we had a fairly lengthy discussion on what belongs and doesn’t belong in the Main Discussion Forum and the Off Topics. For awhile we exhibited some discipline though as of late things seem to have been slipping. Think of some of the topics discussed here as of late (and in no particular order):

 Tommy Emmanuel – You Tube posts
 Chet Atkins fingernails
 Good Morning OLF - Leaving for China
 Miami Guitar Show – arguably some of the threads belonged in the Off Topics section
 Applause for YakMatter, Adam Kay and Arthur

No biggie, in particular where the newer members are the offending parties. But it bothers me when the long time members here do it with an attitude that tenure gives them some sort of sense of entitlement.

Yeah I know I could just choose to just ignore the threads.

Unremittingly yours,
Anthony
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Thu May 01, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
I'm not a big fan of dreadnoughts and I'm not likely to build any in the near future. However, I think that Chas has a point. The continuous dreadnought bashing seen on this forum creates an atmosphere that would make any dreadnought builder or player feel unwelcome. If I was a dreadnought guy, I'd have left the forum long ago. I would have told my dread building friends that the OLF is a clique for fingerstyle builders.

Refusing to spell out the word, while amusing in small doses, implies that the very name of the instrument is an obscenity. A dreadnought builder might even have laughed at it the first few times but when it become relentless it also become exclusionary.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu May 01, 2008 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Mike to respectfully disagree here I can't imagine anyone leaving the forum because some jerk like me uses an asterisk when spelling dreadnought. But your point about the importance of promoting behavior that is not exclusionary is very well made and shared. Be careful though opening up the issue of sensitivities may be a Pandora's box that once done can never be closed.......

If not spelling dreadnought completely and possibly disrespectfully honestly creates a hostile environment for anyone I certainly am willing to comply for the greater good. But...... on the other hand where does it end? Are we going to censure folks in terms of expressing their personal opinions because some have thin skins? Having been on the other end of this argument in the past the easiest solution was for me to thicken up.

If the expressions of personal opinions, by definition, were removed and prohibited from the OLF there would be very little content left.......

I build guitars because I enjoy it. I participate here on the OLF because I enjoy the forum too. One of the things that I enjoy the most here is the opportunity to get to know others, their likes, dislikes, passions as well as what personally bothers them. This includes hearing the plethora of personal opinions that are often expressed.

Good forums are over time able to build and even promote a culture that is unique to the forum and appealing to the members. I speak of traditions as well. Not spelling out dreadnought at all times was a tradition that was here when I got here and with really no personal malice towards dreadnoughts I continued this tradition, at times, because when in Rome..........

Besides - we are not permitted to swear.....

But your point regarding not creating a hostile climate for anyone is something that I will always agree with. So no more not spelling out dreadnought completely for me.

Now lets get back to discussing p*ck guards........
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Thu May 01, 2008 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Listen Up!
Wow, I have to admit I am quite surprised by this, uh, snobbery!?? Bluegrass, classical, slack key, rock? Who cares? OK, well some of you do!

This is a makers forum.

I just had a nice discussion ('nother forum) with a fellow who openly blasted a particular faith, not thinking that many of the members had that faith, and were in turn insulted by one persons opinion of that faith. Not good forum etiquette.

So you don't like dreds or bluegrass or country or rock. Fine... but consider the fact that you might be stepping on toes, especially in an area that does not concern itself with those subjects. I'd bet if we all threw our complete belief systems on the table, very few of us would be left in this forum. If the belief system has nothing to do with guitar building, perhaps find a forum where it would fit better?

Peace. Lets get back to building.

Mike
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