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Festool vs Air ROS
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17068		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Sun May 04, 2008 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Festool vs Air ROS
I've been looking at upgrading to a better ROS setup. My first option is to go down the path of the Festool, which are more expensive than they are in America -- around AUD$500 ($470ish USD) all up for the ETS125 and then the exorbitant prices for their proprietary consumables.

For $8-900 I could upgrade to a bigger air compressor, get a decent ROS for it and also have the benefit of putting it to use in many other ways around the shop, as well as being able to use generic sanding pads at a fraction of the cost. The ROS I'm looking at appears to be the same used by builders like Olson and others of this sort of production level.

Generally speaking, which system will deliver better results?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon May 05, 2008 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
What do you expect this sander to do that a Bosch or DeWalt at 1/4 the price won't do?
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Mon May 05, 2008 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
The price difference wouldn't be quite that extreme as all our tools are more expensive -- a Bosch would be in the AUD$250-350 range and the DeWalt (which I know very little about) is around AUD$170. The first thing that jumps out about the Festool is the fact that it's around 50% lighter than most of its size, and of course the resounding praise that the brand gets. That said I'm not adverse to going down the path of other brands; the proprietary consumables from Festool is probably the biggest deterrent for me because they're priced even more ridiculously than the tools.

I should probably rephrase... basically I'm in the market for a new ROS and I'm also planning on getting a bigger air compressor that, among other things, could handle a ROS. In terms of end results, would I fare better with a high quality electric ROS, or an air version?
Author:  Colin S [ Mon May 05, 2008 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I'm with Howard, I use a DeWalt ROS and it does everything I need. Works flawlessly, very dust free and uses any 125mm pads, I like the Hermes multi hole pads as they are virtually clog free and allow great dust collection. Festool products are very expensive in the UK as well, about £350 ($700), so are not really ever an option compared to an £80 DeWalt or Bosch.

Colin
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Mon May 05, 2008 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
Richard, talk to Bob Connor about his Festool. He can give you some insight into obtaining and using.
Author:  dberkowitz [ Mon May 05, 2008 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I'm about to upgrade to a larger compressor and Dynabrades. Several builders have been telling me for years to upgrade to them and to quote, "they will change your life." They are much more precise, have much less runout, and with modern finishes that want a 3-4mil thickness that can be the difference between buffing out easily or buffing through. They also have smaller RO tools that can handle touchups in hard places like cutaways. Air is the way to go if you can afford it.

David D. Berkowitz
Berkowitz Guitars
Author:  bob_connor [ Mon May 05, 2008 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I have a 110 volt Festool 125 that Lillian very kindly organised for me at a much cheaper price than I can get it for here in Australia. We already have a step down transformer.

I will agree with Todd that these are brilliant for level sanding. 400 grit dry, then 1000 grit and 2000 grit Platin 2 which are like micromesh and buff. Total time around an hour.

Bob
Author:  stan thomison [ Mon May 05, 2008 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I would if just buying something to replace something and guess depending on how much building (guitars or anything) would go with PC, DeWalt or simular. Can buy several for cost of the Festool, but who knows I may go there someday as I really like the sander and think if do would wait until could get the dust collector unit with it.

If upgrading and cost wasn't the issue, I would probably go with the compressor. The idea of Festool is nice and boss bought one. It is smoother than the others we had. I guess though if picking one thing out, I would go for the compressor and tools. You can just do more things with the compressor like spray finish, vacuum etc. and use it for tools. So guess first would go with the compressor first with the benefits of many uses.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon May 05, 2008 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I have a copy of the 2008 Taunton's fine woodworkingtool guide. They review a number of ROS, and had festool ETS125 as the readers choice, but they picked the Klingspor KA1893 DVS as their pick - at more than half the cost. They also picked the Bosch 1295DVSK as their Best overall as well, also half the price of the festool. (they indicate that the Klingspor is essentially the same tool as the Bosch)

Question: What are some specific tasks that you use the ROS for? I am currentlty on my 1st build, and am gluing in my back braces (rims done). I will next be working the top (top currently about .250, need to skim plane, join, etc).

Thanks!

Glenn
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon May 05, 2008 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I bought one of the Klingspoor ones, and took it back. After you buy the sander, then you have to spend another $15 for an attachment to hook your vacuum to it. The little paper dust collector is a piece of junk, and only catches about 1/8 of the sanding dust, at best. The machine worked OK, but I don't like being nickel and dimed to death with accessories. I bought a PC one and have not looked back, vacuum hooks right up, and I even get to pick which hose I want to use. It will fit 3 sizes, with no extra cost. It was also about $10 cheaper than the Klingspoor. Now, I don't even use it very much, as I opt for a scraper almost every time.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Mon May 05, 2008 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I have Festool which I like a lot but I also have a PC and 2 Rigids from Home Depot. The Rigids are great. About $75 and very little vibration and plenty of power. Come with 2 pads, one hook and loop and one for psa. I bought the 2nd one after using the first for a while and really liking it. They have been used about every day for 3 years now, no problems.
Link
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon May 05, 2008 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I'm on my third Porter Cable variable speed Random Action Sander. Its a great tool, a real workhorse.

I thought about using air, but I often use it for hours at a time, so I would need a compressor that could keep up to the demand. Sanders use a lot of air!

When making a choice, keep in mind the mass of the unit. A low mass sander, while comfortable to use, will easily be influenced by the centripetal action of the disc, while a higher mass sander can actually overcome it. Also, the higher mass sander will suffer less from vibration, and will transfer less vibration to your hands. I tired the smaller units, this is how I know.

I did buy a vacuum attachment for my PC sander, but the hose and hood gets in the way of my working the sander. Working over a downdraft table would work if I only sanded small things than I do.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon May 05, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
My Festool ES 125 is one of the finest tools that I have ever used or owned.

The thing to know about Festool is that the objectives for the design were a bit different than your average big box store ROS.

First - superb dust collection when used in conjunction with a Festool dust extractor/vac and integrated auto-on-off was part of the design parameters.

Second - Festool sought to have the ROS action move in such a way that what results is perfectly sanded surface with no touch-up required.

And third - the Festool ES-125 was designed to be light weight and powerful so that one handed, effortless use was a piece of cake, so-to-speak.

In addition, it is very quiet, smooth, and the papers last a very long time and are not overly priced when compared to other quality papers.

OTH - they are expensive and in some places in the world prohibitively expensive. But so too is a PC-310 laminate trimmer and far less expensive alternatives abound. It all depends on what it is worth to you.

I have had finishers ask me how I do my final sanding because they thought that the surfaces where perfectly prepared. I am all to happy to let them know that lazy me used a Festool ES 125.

I am VERY happy with mine if you couldn't tell....... :D
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon May 05, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I liked my DeWalt; I like my Bosch better.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Mon May 05, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
ToddStock wrote:
The differences between the Festool sanders and the other brands is at the margins
j
Well said. That is the case for a lot of finer tools.

ToddStock wrote:
graphite epoxy dust will kill an electric ROS in pretty short order


Very true, but if you don't have enough air you have to buy cheap and let em bite the dust. (pun intended) I use graphite on the bottoms of some of the boats I build and it will waste a sander.

ToddStock wrote:
I'm placing less and less faith in FWW's reviews, and more in PW's stuff. A great example of this was a recent article on band saws - when only one band saw would handle a particular task, the reviewer arbitrarily decided to delete the test, rather than report that all stalled except Brand X. Same thing with the asinine bevel up versus bevel down plane article in a recent issue - clueless authors and careless editors seem to be the order of the day at the magazine these days. I dropped my charter subscription to FWW about three years ago and buy only the copies that have something worth while...works out to be an issue a year or so.


You could have taken the words right out of my mouth.
Todd I can tell you know your way around woodworking. Your rant is right on.
Link
Author:  Allen McFarlen [ Mon May 05, 2008 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
1 have the Festool as well, and it's a brilliant sander. The price here in Australia is akin to robbery though. If I had a compressor at home I would look at an air powered ROS for the price savings, but that also means cranking on the compressor every time you want to do a bit of sanding. Not an issue if it gets turned on every time your int the shop though. With the electric I just switch it on even if all I'm going to sand is going to take a minute or less.
Author:  Chris Ide [ Mon May 05, 2008 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
I've had a festool rotex150 for over 4 years now. Its gets used several days a week if not every day in my cabinet/furniture shop. It is the only sander I've owned that has lasted long enough to wear out a set of brushes. I've had a couple dewalts, one still works, a PC, it lasted about 2 years, couple of boschs one lasted almost 3 years the other disappeared. and a b&d something that was a true pos. I liked the bosch units till I bit the bullet and bought the festool. The dust collection is better then anything else I've used by far and despite its large size is easy to operate. With the dual mode it has also relegated my belt sander to collecting dust, so it has seen more use then any of my previous sanders and aside from replacing the brushes iit has been trouble free and I expect it will see many many more years of service. Oh and festool has a line of air sanders.
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Tue May 06, 2008 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool vs Air ROS
Great advice everyone; I really appreciate it.

Seems to me that long-term the way to go is compressed air but I like the idea of keeping a high quality electric on hand for the convenience/portability of things. Probably go the electric for now, even if it puts off the new compressor by a few months.

Now just seems to be down to Festool vs. Bosch/DW/etc. I think I'm still leaning towards Festool.

I've thought about importing from the US for cheap and running it through a transformer but my biggest concern would be in relation to warranty and also the effects of running a machine like this for the extended periods a sander is on for. One problem with either the ROS or the transformer and the locally bought unit would have paid for itself. Probably an idea to buy the abrasives abroad though.
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