Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?

RH is not an issue, as mine varies between 40-45 in winter, and 45-50 in summer.

My issue is that i think it is going to take me quite awhile to get the top done. So I was wondering if I am better to leave the back off for a possible long duration, or with it attached to the rim, but not having a top ready for a possible long duration.

BTW, cutting the back braces and carving them has been a real eye opener. I am hoping when I get to the braces on the top, that I can take advantage of the dumb mistakes I made on the back (a had to throw out a set of cut braces for the back as I somehow ended up having alot of runout on them - re-did them and they were fine.)

Todd, great advice wrt sanding the rims. Next time I will wait to do that till I am ready to attach (I sanded the bottom rim, but not the top). I will make sure I give a few turns in the dish before attaching.

Thanks!

Glenn

Author:	Glenn LaSalle [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
Hi All, I completed my back early this morning. The rim has been done for a little while now. My question: should i proceed to work on attaching the back even though I havn't started the top yet (been working on practice tops)? I have some nice lutz that I need to still get to thickness, join, etc. Or should I get the top going first, and plan on attaching both top and back in the same general timeframe? Thanks! Glenn

Author:	Hesh [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
I attach the back first giving me an opportunity to clean up any squeeze-out that could show, easily, through the sound hole. Next comes the top. My tuning is done with free plates even though my credit card balance would beg to differ.... If the builder has problems maintaining a stable RH in the shop it's important to attach the plates to the rim asap. If not, it's very much a personal choice depending on build styles, if the builder likes to tweak braces with the top on the rim, etc.

Author:	Glenn LaSalle [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
RH is not an issue, as mine varies between 40-45 in winter, and 45-50 in summer. My issue is that i think it is going to take me quite awhile to get the top done. So I was wondering if I am better to leave the back off for a possible long duration, or with it attached to the rim, but not having a top ready for a possible long duration. BTW, cutting the back braces and carving them has been a real eye opener. I am hoping when I get to the braces on the top, that I can take advantage of the dumb mistakes I made on the back (a had to throw out a set of cut braces for the back as I somehow ended up having alot of runout on them - re-did them and they were fine.) Todd, great advice wrt sanding the rims. Next time I will wait to do that till I am ready to attach (I sanded the bottom rim, but not the top). I will make sure I give a few turns in the dish before attaching. Thanks! Glenn

Author:	Brock Poling [ Mon May 12, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
glasalle wrote: RH is not an issue, as mine varies between 40-45 in winter, and 45-50 in summer. My issue is that i think it is going to take me quite awhile to get the top done. So I was wondering if I am better to leave the back off for a possible long duration, or with it attached to the rim, but not having a top ready for a possible long duration. BTW, cutting the back braces and carving them has been a real eye opener. I am hoping when I get to the braces on the top, that I can take advantage of the dumb mistakes I made on the back (a had to throw out a set of cut braces for the back as I somehow ended up having alot of runout on them - re-did them and they were fine.) Todd, great advice wrt sanding the rims. Next time I will wait to do that till I am ready to attach (I sanded the bottom rim, but not the top). I will make sure I give a few turns in the dish before attaching. Thanks! Glenn Yeah, you are better off to leave the back off until the top is done. I notch the linings for the top braces before I attach the back. That way they end up being as clean as they can be. Then I attach the back for the reasons Hesh pointed out, then the top.

Author:	Glenn LaSalle [ Mon May 12, 2008 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
Thanks Brock. I think I will wait and start working on the top (although I havnt doen the end wedge yet, I'll get that done). Quick question wrt notching out the top (and back, for that matter). Do you only notch the lining, or do you go through the side. I know there was a thread recently, but I was thinking about this today. If going through the side, then I would think I only have to make sure it is a good fit, and cut brace to length AFTER gluing. If only the lining, then I have to cut the braces to exact length BEFORE glueing on the top/back? Is this a correct assumption? Thanks! Glenn

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Author:	Heath Blair [ Mon May 12, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
im building my first, so keep that in mind... i attached the back first for a couple reasons. after seeing how much work was involved in cleaning up glue squeeze out in other areas, i wanted to be able to keep things nice and clean when i glued the back on. also, i felt like getting things perfect was more important when glueing the top on (not that i didnt aim to get things perfect with the back). so i kinda wanted the practice of glueing the back on before i went on to the top. im glad i did. even though i did several dry runs, things still went wacky when it was time for the real deal. so im glad that i have that experience under my belt now when i glue the top on. i know that some like to attach the top first, so they can do some final tuning before closing the box. i think that idea is great and i might go that route on number 2. as for tucking braces, i chose to only go through the linings. ive read that in changing humidity the brace can push on the binding and cause the binding to come loose. ive never seen it myself, but what do i know. also i thought there was a chance that when routing for binding, the spinning bit might cause the brace to split out. anyways, whether going through just the linings will help either of those things or not, it wasnt that much more work to do. a razor blade and a narrow chisel made pretty short work of it all and cutting the braces to length is not difficult. if you do chose to go all the way through the side, make sure your binding will cover up the pocket. have fun.

Author:	Hesh [ Mon May 12, 2008 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advice: Attaching the back before working on top?
Yep there was a thread about this recently and the responses were all over the place. On my first while routing the binding channels the bit hit the brace end of the upper transverse brace and took a chunk of the top out with the brace end....... And I was doing climb cuts too. Since then I don't route for the brace ends through the sides and I cut the braces to length leaving about 1/32"ish of gap between the sides and the brace end. This way when routing for the binding channels the router bit never touches the braces. If you go this route be sure to leave the brace ends nice and long BEFORE and during the marking stage so you can easily find them when marking for the notching of the kerfed linings. This is important too when and if you are going to feather the lower X-legs away to nothing, mark the kerfed linings first, then feather away. You can also draw extensions of the X-legs onto the top to help with locating and this is what I usually end up doing since I always forget and feather the lower X-legs first prior to notching the kerfed linings...... You may say why are the lower X-legs important if they are not getting inlet into the kerfed linings? Because the angle that your pockets need to precisely be for a nice tight fit on the upper X-legs is derived from the position of the lower X-legs.

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