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If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17169	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Tue May 13, 2008 8:04 am ]
Post subject:	If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
We are moving from CT to Florida, and I decided it was a great opportunity to upgrade some of my equipment. I sold my old jointer, small table saw, and my legacy ornamental mill, and hung on to my Delta 14 inch bandsaw and my festool sanders and vac. So now, when I get to florida in a couple weeks, its re-toolin' time, and I'm on the fence about what to do. Seems like it might be a good time to eschew some of my more "traditional" woodworking tools and acquire a small CNC. I'm back and forth on this. Some days I think "stick with what got you here" and other days its "try the new thing, its a big learning curve but what the heck"... What do you all think? (now I'll just sit back and watch the fur fly...)

Author:	NigelForster [ Tue May 13, 2008 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Two good Japanese chisels - 24mm and 2mm, a Stanley block plane, two diamond stones and a super fine water stone. An engineers 6" square, a 18" straight edge and a good 1000mmm steel rule. As for machines - a 6" jointer and a small bandsaw is all you really need, but a table saw is a wonderful thing too. It is easy to get carried away buying tools. Try not to. Your money is better spent on timber. http://www.nkforsterguitars.com

Author:	Hesh [ Tue May 13, 2008 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Congrats on the move Mitch my friend! I am currently packing my own shop which provides me with the opportunity to look at everything that I have and ask the question - what was I thinking.......... Knowing as I do that my garage contains two Crapsman shop-Vacs that were relegated to the garage because they were nothing more than very loud dirt strainers the first thing that I would purchase, if I were starting over, would be a very good vac/dust extractor. Something like a Fein or Festool. The next thing that I would buy would be a good 14" or slightly larger band saw. And even though its cool to learn to bend on a pipe one of the things that really pushed my building to the next comfortable level was a Fox style bender w/blanket. It's just so very much easier to bend sides, bindings, purflings, etc on the bender. My last major acquisition that changed how I build for the better was a thickness sander - highly recommended. Good luck with the move and enjoy the process of building your new shop.

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Tue May 13, 2008 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Thanks guys - I didn't part with my bandsaw, my Festool vac, my Bending system from Tom (Mandomaniac), or my Jet 16/32 sander - still have all of those - just wondering if this is a good time to make the jump to CNC...

Author:	James Orr [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
I think it depends. What would you like the CNC to do for you?

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Everything I was doing with a jointer, planer, and table saw, plus specialized things like necks and bridges...

Author:	Barry Daniels [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
It largely depends on what your building. For example, if you are mainly doing solid body electrics, you really need a jointer. A planer and table saw might also be useful, if you are starting with larger timbers. I don't see a CNC as being a replacement for any of these basic tools. But everyone has different needs and preferences and you are obviously in the best position to judge that.

Author:	Bruce Dickey [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Mitch, Congratulations on your move, sounds exciting, Florida should be great except for the occasional hurricane. Can't speak to the CNC issue. I see you have a sander for tops backs and sides, that's good. A recent event in paint and body led me to upgrade my gun to a Devilbiss JGA. It's on it's way. I borrowed one from a friend to do a car hood for my son's wife's car. As I returned it, the lightbulb came on again, comments from Petros and our own McKnight affirm the use of old siphon style guns made to spray heavier materials like nitro and poly. Zero in on dust collection. ClearVue has some good info on their site and are now up in lights as an OLF sponsor I see. Doesn't matter how well you build if you are in the hospital with respiratory illness. Hint to all OLFers who've been winking at this issue. Much worse than smoking or drinking to our health. Revisit Bill Pentz's site. Not being familiar with all your assets, one can only generalize. IF resawing, I recommend a saw 18 inches. Tablesaws are great for fret slotting boards, cutting out neck blanks, sawing up spruce bracing with the old Freud Diablo 71/4 inch carbides. I love my gobar, others are equally sold on their vac systems for brace gluing. Radius dishes, good chisels, stock of all sorts of woods for building. You never mentioned if you had a windfall of money in this transition. If so, let us know how much and we'll help you spend it. Oh, and if you've not used a K and K sound system try one, no controls, no batteries, great sound, simple.

Author:	Link Van Cleave [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Are you a professional ? If not my perspective is why would you want to automate woodworking ? CNC means less contact with the wood. I don't know your situation and I am not saying this directly applies to you but I always wonder at hobby woodworkers who want to imitate production and factory woodwork. A lot of times simple is better and more enjoyable. Some folks make (or buy) jigs to make other jigs. For just making money CNC can pay off but again that depends. Sometimes it is better to job out parts. One thing I would never sell is a good bandsaw. It took me a long time to get my 30" Oliver and I would not part with it. So to answer your quesion I would get a good bandsaw and a jointer. I would base my shop off of these. Assuming a good assortment of hand tools I could do anything with a bandsaw, jointer, router, and drill. This is geared toward general woodworking. Link

Author:	douglas ingram [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
It REALLY depends upon how much work you need these tools to do for you. For a couple of build per year, I wouldn't invest in CNC. Before you invest in new tooling, I'd suggest that you think through your processes and figure out your bottlenecks. One thing I feel the lack of is a really good bench plane (LN or Veritas) and a really good sharpening system. What I have now is good enough that I can't justify the expense of new ones, but not so good as to not want something better. So, basically my advice is to invest now in what you wish that you had. Stuff that is easy to not buy because you don't reallyneed it enough. If you really need a tool you will find a way to buy it.

Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
I'd get a really nice table saw and a good 6" jointer. Forget the CNC. Unless you are a large volume builder I'm guessing you could whip out parts faster with traditional jigs and have the flexibility to change designs more easily. Just my two cents. Terry

Author:	clavin [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	What tools?
If I was moving to Florida the first thing I would buy is a house somewhere I could afford to live. Most lively like Tennessee, Ga, or somewhere else.. Sorry, but things have gotten out of hand down in the Southern half ... Congrats and best of luck! Maybe a dehumidifier is a good first tool? Or a very large room AC unit. Craig L

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
If you think its bad down there Craig buddy, try living in Ct for a while - highest gas tax in the nation, extremely high property taxes, state income tax, you name it, these guys have their hands in your pockets...

Author:	clavin [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:13 am ]
Post subject:	Mitch you are way more North then me.
Hi Mitch. Just noticed you are way more North then I. That's a big difference. I am in Fort Lauderdale pretty much, (just a little west of it- but at the same exact location map-wise) and it's at least double cost of living then for you possibly. Housing is certainly less, and most likely less humid. Good luck on the move! Gas here last I saw was $3.80 a gal. Didn't see it today yet. Craig

Author:	Kent Chasson [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
For me it would be better dust collection, a 12" spiral cutter jointer for prepping wood to resaw, and about twice as much space. As for CNC, I'm very much of the opinion that the only reason for anyone but a large manufacturer to own a CNC is because they think it's fun. Given the cost, the space to run it, and the time investment to learn to use it, most folks would be way better off with simpler technology. If you really have a need for tooling or small runs of parts, farming stuff out to someone who does it for a living would likely be much cheaper and the quality would probably be better.

Author:	bluescreek [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
BOTTLE OPENER

Author:	Steve Walden [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Big new #1 pencil.

Author:	Dave Anderson [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Hi Mitch , Things I wouldn't want to do without are my drill press,router table,go-bar deck, spindle sander,band saw,Dust Collection, belt sander,jointer,and of course my finishing gear and all my hand tools. CNC- not for me. Hurry on down! I can't wait to meet you when you get moved in. Mitch is moving down here to my neighborhood guys ! Need Any help with the new shop/house just ask buddy. Yeah, CNC would be fun but for a small builder I wouldn't do it Mitch. Just my 2 cents.

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Tue May 13, 2008 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
I think I'm just starting to see a pattern here... I think I am going to proceed with the good ol' tried and true machines and just get set up properly with the right jigs and such. Dave buddy don't make any plans for the 30th - I need someone to help me carry my couch inside from the Pod! Very excited to get out of CT...

Author:	burbank [ Tue May 13, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
If I were starting over...... Hmmmmm........ I would just buy a guitar.

Author:	NigelForster [ Wed May 14, 2008 12:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
If you are doing this a s a serious hobby, forget CNC and learn the skills you need to build guitars. I would even say get rid of your fox bender and learn to do it the old way. You'll be amazed what a good man can do with a decent chisel. What do you want to be? A guitar maker, a computor programmer or a factory worker?! http://www.nkforsterguitars.com

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Wed May 14, 2008 6:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
NigelForster wrote: What do you want to be? A guitar maker, a computor programmer or a factory worker?! Well, I'm two for three on that one right now...

Author:	JimWomack [ Wed May 14, 2008 6:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Hey Mitch, congrats on the move. Spring Hill is really nice, you'll like it. You're only a half hour or so from me straight down Hwy 50, so like Dave, give me a shout if you need some help settling into the house or shop. As far indispensable tools in the shop go, it would have to be the refrigerator... can't build geetars in FL without something cool to drink!

Author:	Mitch Cain [ Wed May 14, 2008 7:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Wow, the Floridians are coming out of the woodwork! We're stackin' up like cord wood... I smell an alliance! the FLA - Florida Luthiers Association... I'll even host the first meeting...but you have to help carry stuff into the house!

Author:	JimWomack [ Wed May 14, 2008 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If you were starting over, what tools would you buy first?
Mitch Cain wrote: Wow, the Floridians are coming out of the woodwork! We're stackin' up like cord wood... I smell an alliance! the FLA - Florida Luthiers Association... I'll even host the first meeting...but you have to help carry stuff into the house! Hey, sounds good to me. You know what they say... A strong back is a terrible thing to waste!

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