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Building a demo guitar.
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17360		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Steve Saville [ Tue May 27, 2008 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Building a demo guitar.
What would the ultimate demo guitar be?
Is there such a thing?
Do you need several?
I'm thinking that it is time for me to build one, but it will also be my daily player.
Should I just make it my dream guitar, or try to find something more suitable to more players.
As a mostly fingerstyle player, my cedar topped OM might not work well as a demo.

What are you thoughts about demos guitars?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue May 27, 2008 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
SteveS wrote:
What would the ultimate demo guitar be?
Is there such a thing?
Do you need several?
I'm thinking that it is time for me to build one, but it will also be my daily player.
Should I just make it my dream guitar, or try to find something more suitable to more players.
As a mostly fingerstyle player, my cedar topped OM might not work well as a demo.

What are you thoughts about demos guitars?


They seem to always sell so calling them Demo's is a bit moronic in my shop it seams. You need to decide if the intent is to show case tone or artistic cabinetry or a combination of both. Personally I think to give good example of tone one simple mahogany and Spruce and one of IRW and Cedar make good demos. Make them simple if you want them to stay around. Of course build them with care but not a lot of zootfull binding and such if you want them to hang around a while.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue May 27, 2008 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I have built two and both have sold to someone I sent it to as a sample.

Both bought it because they 1) Didn't want to wait for a commission, and 2) they didn't want to have to wonder what theirs would sound like.

I think if you build one, build something that you can sell without a great deal of remorse.
Author:  Sam Price [ Tue May 27, 2008 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I have one more guitar needed to be built, and the one after that will be a demo- I've been building for myself the last few years, and want other people to play them and give me honest critique.

This forum can only critique fit & finish, and it's the playability I want to get sorted too. (pretty large part of a guitar's function, funnily enough)

I have a few trusted people round the UK waiting patiently in the wings to "borrow" the guitar for a while and make comments.

The position I am in is fortunate, as it's not possible to go self employed at this time. The several years I have is an incubation period to try and get things just right.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue May 27, 2008 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Another thought I had about this.

I ran into a problem on one of my "shop" guitars. I had a list of folks who wanted to try it and when I sold it and a few folks "in line" weren't all that pleased that I sold it.

So now I just tell everyone up front that there is a possibility the guitar may sell before getting to them.
Author:  Michael Jin [ Tue May 27, 2008 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I personally don't believe there's every such a thing as a "demo" instrument, particularly one that's hand crafted. The problem with a demo instrument is the fact that every instrument is unique. From the density of the wood to how thick your glue was applied. Every variable aspect changes the sound and feel from one instrument to another even within the same model line. This is why I personally believe in always buying what's in the store and on the shelves because if I liked what I heard, there's no guarantee that the one in the box will sound or feel the same. If you want to build a demo guitar, that's fine, but I would say that it could possibly lead to a lot of criticism and complaints down the line because you can never reproduce the demo exactly. Take the guitar for what it is and sell the one that customer is playing and likes. That way the customer knows exactly what he's getting and there's no room for complaints.
Author:  John How [ Wed May 28, 2008 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I built a demo guitar a few years ago. It has been around the country more than one time on road trips arranged thru a couple of different player forums. I still own the guitar even though I have had multiple offers to buy it. It has been a very good investment and now has not only provided me with some good exposure, and more sales than I can count on my fingers, but has made me lots of friends and I have a few very nice recordings (by some very talented musicians) of the guitar as well. This guitar will be going back out on the road again soon. I'd try to keep it simple and make sure there are no defects in it. You want to show your best work always.
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Wed May 28, 2008 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Michael Jin wrote:
If you want to build a demo guitar, that's fine, but I would say that it could possibly lead to a lot of criticism and complaints down the line because you can never reproduce the demo exactly. Take the guitar for what it is and sell the one that customer is playing and likes. That way the customer knows exactly what he's getting and there's no room for complaints.

I think that the average buyer of handmade instruments is aware of the subtle nuances that are essentially unavoidable between two otherwise identical guitars. The demo/spec guitar acts as the builder's C.V. rather than a 'master' that future orders will be a carbon copy of. Such a guitar can be a very useful tool for the most discerning potential client when coupled with conversations with the builder and knowledge of their building history and reputation.

Why not just think of it as building yourself a guitar? Build it to YOUR specs... be your own client for a change. Play to your strengths and build a guitar you're proud to play and proud to share. Maybe a year or two down the track you'll get the opportunity to build yourself another demo guitar and expand your range with a different shape, woods etc.

I always try to have one guitar on the go that has no buyer. They tend to take 2-3 times as long to build but I enjoy having some variety and being able to jump from task to task so I don't get too burnt out by one guitar. To me they have three very appealing/useful purposes:

1. another guitar that I can play myself for a bit of variety,
2. something to show potential buyers when they come to the shop, and
3. a great way to make a sale when a customer is reluctant to enter a waiting list (often customers entering the handmade market for the first time).
Author:  Billy T [ Wed May 28, 2008 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Sounds like the next guitar one builds should always be a demo guitar!

Unless, it's commissioned specifically!
Author:  harmonist34 [ Wed May 28, 2008 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Of course you can't reproduce a demo guitar down to every last nuance of tone, but if you have no idea what the next one you build is going to sound like, I'm going elsewhere with my money! With most of the luthiers I've experienced in this business, there's a consistent tonal palette to the guitars they produce with their standard formula (some really weird one-off design is going to sound different), even if the various woods and body style differences make each one unique.

My take - you should have a demo, and it should be the following:

1. A good example of your typical level of fit and finish.
2. A good example of your typical tone
3. Common tonewoods
4. A guitar you'd want to build again and again

Don't demo something you don't like yourself, or you'll be encouraging people to order something you don't really want to make!

Andrew
Author:  Michael Jin [ Wed May 28, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
richo wrote:
I think that the average buyer of handmade instruments is aware of the subtle nuances that are essentially unavoidable between two otherwise identical guitars. The demo/spec guitar acts as the builder's C.V. rather than a 'master' that future orders will be a carbon copy of. Such a guitar can be a very useful tool for the most discerning potential client when coupled with conversations with the builder and knowledge of their building history and reputation.


I personally feel that it's risky to assume that just because a person is looking into buying a handmade instrument, he knows what he's getting into. I personally would never assume such a thing. A demo, if anything, to me would simply be a sample of your work. I guess not unlike an artist's portfolio? But I would think that a good number a clients that are so discerning and educated in the field of handcrafted instruments would probably just go ahead and offer to buy the "demo" if it turns out to be something they like (that is, unless they are looking for something specific in their particular build).

That's pretty much why I don't believe in demos. When building such a guitar, I would just treat it as a guitar to be sold. I also think that building it for yourself and to your tastes is a good idea as well, but if it's any good you can assume that someone at some point will make an offer for it. So yeah...
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Thu May 29, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Steve.
I have 4 "demos" Basically they are my personal instruments and they are 4 different sizes.
They are NOT for sale. They are also inlayed with my initials so only Anthony Z might want one!!!!

1. A parlor 12 fret (Lutz Mac ebony)
2. A OO (Lutz BW Ebony)
3. An OM (Adiron/Koa)
4. An OLF SJ 12 string (Lutz/Quilt Sapele)

having all 4 allow me to have several instruments to play, but allows me to show a range of instruments
to potential customers. Both in size and strings.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu May 29, 2008 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
After reading this, I'm convince even more that I need at least 2 demos. One that I might sell and one to keep as a demo. This seems like the biggest no brainer in building to me.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu May 29, 2008 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
SteveS wrote:
After reading this, I'm convince even more that I need at least 2 demos. One that I might sell and one to keep as a demo. This seems like the biggest no brainer in building to me.


I would always sell them. Your work is a constant work in progress (at least mine is) and I think the demos are a good way to show a reflection of your recent work.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu May 29, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I guess that is what guitar builders do, sell guitars.
I do need one that I can play, but I think having a few demo guitars around will only increase sales, either by selling them or taking orders from people playing them.
Author:  Anthony Z [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
azimmer1 wrote:
They are also inlayed with my initials so only Anthony Z might want one!!!!


There you go again being such a tease gaah :) I suspect one of yours would find itself quite comfortable in my living room. Let me know when you tire of one of yours ;)
Author:  Richard Wilson [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Yeah I think that's one of the more important points. The idea of building one guitar as a perpetual demo guitar seems a bit odd. If a customer wants to buy it, sell it. Maybe if you have forthcoming exhibitions or visitors etc. then arrange with them a timeframe for the transaction to take place in but it seems foolish to lose a customer (assuming they are reluctant to enter a waiting list). Push comes to shove I could have a replacement demo built from scratch within a month (a very busy month mind you) and I always have one at least partway complete, because I do treat them like 'for sale' guitars rather than demos.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
I started my "demo" guitar. Who knows how long I'll keep it!
SJ Florentine, Lutz on curly oak, manzanita binding.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a demo guitar.
Not to be a wet blanket....and please don't take personal offense....but rarely does anyone ever buy an oak guitar. It's rather sad in a way, since I've heard an oak guitar that sounded really nice. If you want a guitar for a demo that will make someone want to buy one of your guitars, oak isn't a good choice in the real marketplace. That said, more than likely you won't have to worry about someone wanting to buy it.
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