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| Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17373 |
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| Author: | John Buckley [ Wed May 28, 2008 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
I'm ready to start rubbing out a lacquered neck for the 1st time, and was wondering the best way to go about it. It has 9 very thin coats of Target satin USL that I wiped on, and has now cured for almost 2 weeks. Between each coat, I rubbed lightly with an ultra fine gray synthetic pad. It looks great, but as I run my palm up and down the neck I can "feel" the lacquer. I'd like to get to a "feel" similar to my Taylor, which is as smooth as can be. Don't know if that's possible, but what approach would you recommend for rubbing to get as close as possible to that "feel" without turning the satin look into a gloss look? Thanks, john |
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| Author: | Cal Maier [ Wed May 28, 2008 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
Use "0000" steel wool. It should take the sticky lacquer feeling away and leave the neck with a satin look. Warning! It is more aggresive than the synthetic pads, so go easy, and stay away from the edges. Cal |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 28, 2008 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
Sad truth is USL finished neck will never feel like a Taylor neck. They are two completely different finish media that will never have the same feel. USL is a waterborne acrylic. And in my opinion anyway will always feel a bit like a soft plastic on a neck. Don’t get me wrong I use KTM9 on many bodies but I only use either nitrocellulose, Belhen’s Rockhard , Shellac French polish or Tru-oil on necks. Waterborne acrylic just never seem to offer the fast smooth feel I require of a neck. Now how to rub out. The trick is to use a good pad on the flat areas and I like to use folded over paper backed with a felt block held to the contour of the beam and heel. I start with 600p to level out and work my way through 1500p. the trick is to not get over aggressive but to be sure you remove all the scratches from the previous grits . once at 1500p buff with Menzerna med fine then extra fine and I am done. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed May 28, 2008 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
To get a satin neck, sand up to 1000 grit and stop there. Eventually, this will get a little worn, and the finish may turn glossy in high wears areas. Just hit it again with 1000 grit and your good to go. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Wed May 28, 2008 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
The satin necks that folks are used to are lacquer with a flattening compound added, sprayed on, then left untouched. There are lot's of ways people have to make a completed finish look somewhat matte, from steel wool, to scotch brite, to fine grit sandpapers. None of these will look or feel the same as a sprayed on matte finish, and there's no way I know of other than spraying to have the same effect. You need a relatively level surface to start, which you won't get sanding with free paper or a fine grit pad. You should be leveling back to somewhere around 320 before the final coats, though how fine you have to sand depends on how good your spray setup is. Finer grit papers are to prepare for buffing and polishing, but they are pretty useless for leveling purposes. You don't even really have to level out the pores, maybe 80% flat, as sprayed satin finishes are very forgiving - that's one of the reasons they're so popular with manufacturers. Then spray on a coat or two with flattening compound, and you're done. The spray pattern, lacquer viscosity, atomization and general quality of the gun will all effect the outcome. If you don't have any spray system, matte or satin lacquers are pretty readily available in aerosol cans. The other option with wipe-on finishes is the no-build approach. Things like Waterlox or McFaddens clear gel polyurethanes can give a good bare/satin feel while sealing and minimally coating the wood with a wipe-on application. Works fine on maple necks (feels like the Deering Goodtime banjos if you're familiar), though I'm not sure how it would feel on porous woods. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
What I think is being missed here is that JohnJ has use USL on the neck and the feel, not the satin appearance is not what he is no achiving. Once again I am afraid he will not get to the feel he is looking for with a waterborne acrylic. Some may have had better luck than me but I have never gotten the feel he is describing out of waterborne acrylic. In particular with Target's USL. Waterbornes to me always have a bit of rubbery feel. I really like KTM9 for bodies but I have never been happy with any waterborne on the neck. |
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| Author: | John Buckley [ Wed May 28, 2008 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rubbing Out Lacquered Neck |
Thanks to all who responded to my post about this. I really appreciate your wisdom and offers of assistance. MichaelP---you're absolutely right--the neck "feels "rubbery" and your explanation of the Target USL as a waterborne acrylic and how it contributes to that "feel" makes perfect sense. I guess I'm now resigned to carefully fiddling around the best I can with it and getting it to feel as smooth as I'm able. Not too much though, because in my very limited experience with guitar building I've found that often the more I fiddle with something the more unintended the results end up being. Reminds me of the line in the book about Wayne Henderson where he says something like "it's good enough for who it's for" (that being me). With the lesson learned from this, I'll make up some test boards and try some different things like Tru-Oil, Behlen's Rockhard etc before applying finish to the next one. I was more concerned with getting this 1st neck to look good, and didn't even think about how it might feel until after I'd applied the finish. Thanks again to all. This is a great forum, and the wisdom/experience you guys have and your willingness to help is awesome. john |
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