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making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
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Author:  jackie_thompsen [ Wed May 28, 2008 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Hi-

I am not a luthier. Just a guitar enthusiast.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a new acoustic guitar look really REALLY old? Old like a row-boat that's been bleaching in the sun on the beach for 40 years. Grey lifeless cracking wood is what I'm after.

I would start with a $99 epiphone or some other disposable guitar. I've considered everything from laminating on a photo finish to burning the surface with a torch to leaving the guitar in bleach for few months. But I'd prefer that the guitar remain playable.

Here's a picture to give a rough idea of what I'm after for the face:

Image

Not sure this is possible, so any ideas would be appreciated - thanks.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 28, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
I am not going to ask why though I want to. An open flame is asking for diaster. You are going to have a hard time getting the wood to bleach out because rapidly because the wood is sealed and covered with finish and most manufactures use cat poly of cat urathane so getting the finish or wood to age quickly is not going to be an easy process
Author:  jackie_thompsen [ Wed May 28, 2008 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
MichaelP wrote:
I am not going to ask why though I want to. An open flame is asking for diaster. You are going to have a hard time getting the wood to bleach out because rapidly because the wood is sealed and covered with finish and most manufactures use cat poly of cat urathane so getting the finish or wood to age quickly is not going to be an easy process


Hey- it's me again. I would sand all the poly off first. My biggest concern is getting the yellow color completely out of the face. I've been researching wood bleaches for a while - but it seems that they do the opposite of what I want - livening/brightening up old wood. I'm wondering what kind of chemicals can really desaturate out the yellowish natural color of a guitar face and turn it super old and ashen grey.

I'm not really sure why I want such a beat up looking guitar. I already own a bunch of normal guitars. I just think this would be a really fun thing to own and play. Sort of like how owning a dark-ages crossbow is more fun than a sparkling new rifle.
Author:  James Orr [ Wed May 28, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Jackie, just to clarify . . . It's the color you're after? You're not interested in cracking the lacquer?

Guys, I'm thinking of an ammonia bath, but I don't have first hand experience. What do you think?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed May 28, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
I've never had an ammonia bath, James, but if you think you need one! wow7-eyes laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  jackie_thompsen [ Wed May 28, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
James Orr wrote:
Jackie, just to clarify . . . It's the color you're after? You're not interested in cracking the lacquer?

Guys, I'm thinking of an ammonia bath, but I don't have first hand experience. What do you think?


Yeah - I think getting the color completely out of the face is my primary goal - I'm thinking that sanding off all the clear and hitting it with very abusive chemicals is the way to go. Sorry that the picture I posted shows a wooden plank with deep cracks in it - I know there's no way I could get a guitar face to actually crack like that - I would just rely on very rough non-uniform sanding and maybe streaking with some dark stain in order to create the appearance of additional texture .

Thanks
Author:  James Orr [ Wed May 28, 2008 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Aesthetically and philosophically, I don't think you'll get a lot of support here; and as far as protecting the wood from the elements goes, you're going to need to at least treat the surface with a matte or semi-gloss oil varnish. I'd be more surprised if we can't find the know-how to make it work though.
Author:  wbergman [ Wed May 28, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Some guitars are yellow or orange with stain, which I think would be hard to remove, and some have the color in the finish, which would be easier to remove.
Author:  Billy T [ Wed May 28, 2008 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
WaddyT wrote:
I've never had an ammonia bath, James, but if you think you need one! wow7-eyes laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe


wow7-eyes Well that's disturbing!! laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

Sound to me that most of the things to get a really aged technique would damage the glue joints too! Maybe it would be just better to get the sides bent, neck carved and sanded, and get the top and back sets and place them in the sun for 6 months or so! (Maybe more). Finish is designed to protect the guitar therefore it has to go one way or the other! Water and sun will do the rest!
Author:  Guest [ Wed May 28, 2008 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
here's a mockup of what I want (photoshop). Do you think there's any way I could achieve this look, with a lot of rough sanding, ammonia, black stain, and lots more rough uneven sanding?


Image

Ever since I looked at a vintage-looking tobacco burst guitar, I've felt that 'vintage' is not really what I'm looking for. I want a guitar that looks REALLY old.
Author:  Bob Long [ Wed May 28, 2008 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
What you're after is very simple... just build your guitar with old bridge planks or barn beams... I think it would be very cool!

long
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Wed May 28, 2008 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
A guitar is a living breathing organism. To put the guitar through the abuse you want in order to change its appearence will unfortuantely also change the playability of the same. Lack of humidity or too much of it changes the dome (among other things) which changes the action which changes the...
The leg bone is connected to the knee bone and the knee bone is connected to the ankle bone etc. [:Y:]
You could be opening pandora's box but a 99 dollar guitar probably isn't very playable to begin with anyway so best of luck.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed May 28, 2008 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Leave it in the sun for a few months, you'd be surprised. You could always accelerate the process by leaving it in a tanning bed. UV does bad things (or good, in your case) to wood and finishes. Fuming with ammonia to remove some more colour, once you've UVed it to death, would probably work, as well...maybe buy two in case the ammonia fuming destroys one after the extended UV exposure :)
Author:  James Orr [ Wed May 28, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
WaddyT wrote:
I've never had an ammonia bath, James, but if you think you need one! wow7-eyes laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe


:D I completely missed this earlier.
Author:  jhowell [ Wed May 28, 2008 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
You might try the woodworking guys at the sawmillcreek forum. The problem that I see is that weathering that deep in most wood would destroy guitar tops because of the thinness -- you'd be left with a wall hanger. Start with something that has a cedar top -- one of the Godin offshoots. Cedar can weather and still hold up physically. Good luck.
Author:  wbergman [ Wed May 28, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
You might find an airbrush artist (T-shirt shop or van painter) and let him have at it.
Author:  Jonas [ Wed May 28, 2008 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
You could always drop it down some stairs


also i don't know if acoustics can take sandblasting or if you can finish it, but i know that gets a really nice weathered effect, mabye a darkish brown stain too?
Author:  John How [ Wed May 28, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
One sure way to make a guitar look 40 years old, trouble is, it takes 40 years!!!!
Author:  David Collins [ Wed May 28, 2008 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Just to clarify, this is not something you plan on being playable in the end, right? I assume we're talking about a wall-hanger, saloon decoration sort of thing.

If this is something you want to keep playable, I feel I would be doing you a great disservice in not being fully honest - that would be a really dumb idea. No offense, but before you waste any money and destroy a previously functional instrument I feel you deserve to know. I can see the appeal as a bar room wall hanger (though I would just find an old flea market junker for this), but if you want to play it, I reiterate, this would be a really, really, dumb idea.
Author:  Matt Bouchie [ Wed May 28, 2008 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
You could buy one of these:

http://www.guitargal.com/cgi-bin/display.pl?db=db1&tp=tp2&show=138

Hopefully I did that right. It's made out of reclaimed whiskey barrels and distillery washback vessels. That's pretty cool. Here's the builder's website:

http://www.fyldeguitars.com/index1.html

It seems like it's close to what you want. Looks like it's a little more expensive than $99, though.

Matt
Author:  Michael Jin [ Wed May 28, 2008 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: making a new acoustic guitar look REALLY old
Well theoretically, bleach should take care of the color or sunlight, if you have some time to spare. As for a cracks and stuff... Alternating between soaking it in cold water and putting it into an oven would probably put a few cracks in the thing (particularly the oven part...). I wouldn't go so far as to set the wood on fire, but an oven could provide the heat to crack the wood without scorching it black. The big question is whether or not the glue joints would hold up from such treatment. If anything, you could take the guitar apart, treat it like crap and put the pieces back together with fresh glue. ^^
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