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Thicknessing Top using Planes
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17390		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Thicknessing Top using Planes
Hi all,

I am currently working on test tops (and soon my "real" top). I am currently thicknessing using an old Stanley #5 (early 1900's) and an old Stanley #4 with hock steel. I am pretty new to this and am finding my results to be not very consistent. I want to:

- Skim plane the raw Lutz top
- Join (I am using a Record #5 setup for this)
- clean up the top (level)
- Clean back, and get ~ .140 - .150
- inlay rossette, etc,
- Final thickness from back

I would prefer to continue doing this using hand plane, but can definately see why drum sanders are so popular :-). Any advvice (besides practice, practice, practice) for using hand planes and getting more consistent results (planes are very sharp)?

Also quick question - what is the difdference between the Jet 10-20 sanders and te Performax 10-20? Jet seems to be cheaper.

Thx!

Glenn
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Thu May 29, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
Glenn, I have used a hand plane for everything you have listed, even with curly woods - except thickness a bearclaw top (pure disaster when I tried). For some reason, I don't have the right tool or technique for that. To do the other operations, you need a well-tuned plane, with a very sharp plane blade, with a very narrow throat opening to do the fine work necessary. Also, I have tried to use a typical (well-tuned) Stanley for fine work and just could not get it to perform anywhere near as well as my Lie-Nielsen planes. They are heavier castings with heavier blades, support the blade at the cutting edge better, and are easy to keep finely adjusted. If you haven't made sure your planes are set up perfectly, that is most likely the problem, although practice makes one more adept, obviously.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Thu May 29, 2008 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
Steve is right;
plane set up is very important.
Set the plane for a thin cut.
Angle the plane for each pass.20-30 degrees !
Run out will be obvious from the first cut.
So watch out for tearing-plane from the other direction if you incounter it!

I have a 16-32 performax that works great!
The jet is probably similar to the Performax ,so go with your gut feeling on that.

good luck
Mike [:Y:]
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Thu May 29, 2008 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
The Jet/Performax 10-20 is the same machine, it works very well.
I built my first 8 guitars using planes, nothing to add concerning well-tuned razor sharp planes, although I tended to use smaller planes, like a #3 and a block plane to finish. Slanting the blade very slightly and planing 45º to the grain work well to remove a lot of stock at once when the plates are overly thick, otherwise a toothed blade can help with figured and hard woods.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Thu May 29, 2008 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
Today I sharpened my planes, set-up the shooting board and used my Record # 5 to joint the edges. The joint looked really good (the last one did too tho :cry: ). Then I joined the top. Following is a picture of how I joined:

Attachment:
Joined Top.jpg


I set everything up, and used the wedge to clamp the joint (hope that is clear in the picture)

I will clean up tomorrow, and see how it came out. This was another test top i had (had sap pockets). I am hoping this comes out well so I can join my "real" top. My goal is to keep working on the test top first, then do the same thing on the "real" top. For example, once joined, etc, i will practice the rosette on the test top.

Thanks!

Glenn
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
You also might try a card scraper for final thicknessing. It's a pretty foolproof method. I took a mahogany back down today from about .125" to about .100". It was a lot of work though.
Author:  David Collins [ Thu May 29, 2008 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
A good scraper plane is a wonderful tool for top thicknessing. I have a friend who does entire harpsichord soundboards with these, and it works beautifully. He will have them thicknessed to a ballpark range after joining on a wide belt sander, but finds the scraper one of the only ways to get a suitable finish cut on cypress boards. Compared to that, a guitar sized spruce board should take no time at all with a well sharpened and set up scraper plane.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Fri May 30, 2008 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Top using Planes
I use planes to rough thickness all but the most stubborn, figured hardwoods where the risk of ruining the piece by accidental tear-out is too great (and expensive!). I sometimes use a scraper plane on these, but more often the drum sander. Spruce soundboards I thickness entirely by hand plane, but I have no ‘special techniques’ I think. My favourite planes for this are a Stanley #5 ½ or a #604 ½, both WWI period and well tuned, beautiful tools.

Cumpiano has a very methodical process for thicknessing with hand planes outlined in his book. It involves a certain number of passes with a toothing plane with the grain, across the grain then the same thing with a smooth iron until the target thickness is reached. I don’t use a toothing plane (iron) for this at all, and I guess I’m not as methodical as him, but I do pay attention to grain run-out and irregularities and I check my progress with a straight edge and callipers. This is also when I do the preliminary tapering of the lower bout of the soundboard edges.

I find the process quite enjoyable and quick, and not hard to do at all. With a well tuned plane, soundboards plane almost plane themselves. Scraper planes work much better on harder woods in my experience.
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