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| any reasson not to use this for necks? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17412 |
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Fri May 30, 2008 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Hello all -- I've been away for a while, but I'm very excited about the Swapalooza, as I'm gearing up for my next build, well guitar, that is. I'm slowly starting in on a mandolin, mostly making jigs and templates thus far, but I'm starting to work on the neck. But I digress... I'm also figuring out what I want woods I want to use for an SJ cutaway I'm going to be building as a surprise for my brother in law. I'm hoping to land some koa at the swapmeet, and I'm not sure what top wood might mate up well with that. Any suggestions? Also, I was recently given a bunch of 2 to 4 foot 8/4 drops of what I'm assuming is mahogany. My wife's uncle gave it to me and he said he gets it by the truckload from a guy who builds high end hand carved doors. I'm wondering if there's any reason it shouldn't be used for necks. Of course I'd have to laminate two pieces together with a contrasting stripe down the middle, but seeing how I have so much, I'm thinking I may not have to buy neck wood for a very long time. Here's a few pics. Ken |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri May 30, 2008 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Looks like nice stuff, but the one piece surely looks quartered on the face ... so it will be flat sawn if you laminate it up into a neck ... not so good. The way to use it would be to scarf the headstock and stack the heel from similar pieces. |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Fri May 30, 2008 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
No, no, and double no...that stuff is completely, um, unsuitable for necks. Heck, it's basically scrap. You'll be lucky to find someone who'll take it off your hands. Hey, you're in luck, I'm willing to take it off your hands. Just ship it to me, prepaid of course, and I'll see that it gets properly, uh, used as the worthless scrap that it is.  You're a lucky guy. I'd use the snot out of it. This is the proverbial "SCORE"! It looks good, and very even in color. Congrats. |
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| Author: | Rvsgtr [ Fri May 30, 2008 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Looks like good mahogany to me. Very nice in fact. If you have a full two inch thickness you could just make a "stacked heel" and not have to laminate. Besides, looking at the quartersawn stuff you have in the pics you wouldn't want to laminate anyway since it would put the grain 90 degrees off what you want. BTW, if you don't want to do the stacked heel I'm sure someone will be willing take it off your hands.  Seriously, good, clear honduran mahogany is getting very difficult to find so I would definitely make it work out. It'll cost you about $40+ per neck to buy 16/4 stuff from a supply house you can cut one-piece blanks from. I got lucky and bought some 4x4x10' posts several years back that will keep me supplied for a few more years. Then I may be looking for a high-end door maker. 
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Fri May 30, 2008 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
TonyKarol wrote: Looks like nice stuff, but the one piece surely looks quartered on the face ... so it will be flat sawn if you laminate it up into a neck ... not so good. The way to use it would be to scarf the headstock and stack the heel from similar pieces. That brings up something I've been wondering about -- how many builders out there would do a stacked heel on a commissioned instrument? What about a stock line guitar? It seems like it might be better from a stability standpoint, but on my two OM's I had some color matching issues at the scarf, and the heel, and I swore to myself I wouldn't let that happen again. So, Bill, what's your address?  kidding! However, next time you're in Asheville let me know and I'll send you home with a stick or two. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Dave White [ Sat May 31, 2008 4:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
The wood in the first two pictures looks to me as if it could be Sapele - it's used a lot over here in the UK for doors and door frames in pieces of that size. Sapele is great for necks - as is mahogany of course. I do stacked heels on my commissioned instruments or a solid heel of contrasting but different wood. It's a mindset thing though and "tradition" - or that tiny part of guitar making history from the 1930-40's on that seems to be the current definition of "traditional" - can be hard to shift. |
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Sat May 31, 2008 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Dave White wrote: The wood in the first two pictures looks to me as if it could be Sapele - it's used a lot over here in the UK for doors and door frames in pieces of that size. Sapele is great for necks - as is mahogany of course. I do stacked heels on my commissioned instruments or a solid heel of contrasting but different wood. It's a mindset thing though and "tradition" - or that tiny part of guitar making history from the 1930-40's on that seems to be the current definition of "traditional" - can be hard to shift. Dave -- You've confirmed my suspicion that this may not be mahogany. I only called it mahogany because that's what I'm familiar with, and it indeed has a similar grain structure. However, it's as dense as the densest mahogany I've ever used, and the color leans more toward reddish-purple than the orangey tone I normally associate with 'hog. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sat May 31, 2008 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
skulpter wrote: Dave -- You've confirmed my suspicion that this may not be mahogany. I only called it mahogany because that's what I'm familiar with, and it indeed has a similar grain structure. However, it's as dense as the densest mahogany I've ever used, and the color leans more toward reddish-purple than the orangey tone I normally associate with 'hog. Even if it is Sapele... I wouldn't hesitate for a second. And provided the stacked heel is a good match in color and grain I wouldn't hesitate on that either. That is perfectly acceptable. |
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| Author: | Peter Pii [ Sat May 31, 2008 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
I'm thinkin' that you might have some Peruvian Mahogany there. I've used it for a few guitars. It's weight might make your guitar a little bit neck heavy. Peter |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat May 31, 2008 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Looks like Sapele to me as well. Sapele is generally much more dense than mahogany. Still it should make a fine neck as it's strong, stable, and carves pretty well (but not as easily as mahogany IMO). The neck will be heavy, but structurally OK. I've always used stacked heels. They make a marginally stronger heel, but the main reason I use them is that they use a lot less wood. If you're concerned about matching grain in a stacked heel, just use a board long enough for the neck + 2 heels. Cross cut it at the end where the heel will be and fold it back over itself, kind of like a reverse bookmatch. If the grain is straight enough it should match up pretty well... you can make slight adjustments to get it just right. Hopefully that makes sense. |
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| Author: | Doug-Guitar-Buckler [ Sat May 31, 2008 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Yep, that wood sure looks good! You may be able to tell if it is sapele or mahogony by the smell. In my limited experience, the two do smell a little different from the other. |
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| Author: | SniderMike [ Sat May 31, 2008 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Looks like Santos Mahogany to me. Is it really hard and heavy? One of my students used it last semester for a neck. Very beautiful, but pretty hard to work. Hard on tools, and somewhat brittle. |
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| Author: | JRessler [ Sat May 31, 2008 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
I agree with the Sapele crowd. Sapele makes fine necks. |
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| Author: | Colonial Tonwds [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Ken, Very nice find! One way to tell if the wood is Sapele is sand a small piece and see if you have a cedar-like smell. If you do, it's Sapele. |
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: any reasson not to use this for necks? |
Thanks everyone for your responses. Sounds like we're all in agreement that it's either sapele or mahogany, so I'm safe either way. Yee haw! Colonial Tonwds --I'll try your suggestion. Incidentally, a childhood buddy of mine created the whole Caveman ad campaign a few years back. Also came up with the geico gecko. Thanks again! |
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