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SJ vs. MJ?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17466
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Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  SJ vs. MJ?

Hello all --

I'm zeroing in on my next build, and I'm upping the ante a bit -- I'm going to attempt my first venetian cutaway with my Blues Creek side bender that should be arriving very soon. Woo-hoo! I've got some practice wood I plan to use before I tackle the gorgeous koa I just procured from Bob at the swap. 8-)

First question -- am I insane, or completely naiive to be trying this with koa my first time?

Secondly, I had pretty much made up my mind I wanted to do an SJ, but seeing the plans here for both the SJ and MJ got me to wondering -- what are the differences between the two? Is it merely a slight difference in body size, or is it more than that?

If anyone has images of their MJ's, I'd love to see em.

Whichever one I go with, I plan to alter the lower bout to waist recurve a bit to "slim it down" a little. I feel that would be more aesthetically pleasing to my eye.

Thanks for any input.

Ken

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

skulpter wrote:
Hello all --

I'm zeroing in on my next build, and I'm upping the ante a bit -- I'm going to attempt my first venetian cutaway with my Blues Creek side bender that should be arriving very soon. Woo-hoo! I've got some practice wood I plan to use before I tackle the gorgeous koa I just procured from Bob at the swap. 8-)

First question -- am I insane, or completely naiive to be trying this with koa my first time?

Secondly, I had pretty much made up my mind I wanted to do an SJ, but seeing the plans here for both the SJ and MJ got me to wondering -- what are the differences between the two? Is it merely a slight difference in body size, or is it more than that?

If anyone has images of their MJ's, I'd love to see em.

Whichever one I go with, I plan to alter the lower bout to waist recurve a bit to "slim it down" a little. I feel that would be more aesthetically pleasing to my eye.

Thanks for any input.

Ken


Here are the basic spec drawings
Attachment:
SJ.png

Attachment:
MJ.png


Both are about the same length, The SJ is a 15 1/2"very round lower bout and 4 1/2" deep. The MJ is 16-1/4" lower bout 4-3/4" deep with a more voluptuous shape.

I designed the SJ to be cross between a jumbo and an OM and suited well for finger style play but still have the voice for flat picking. The MJ was designed to be a bigger sound but still be versatile.

Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Aha... Thanks for the clarification, Michael. I mistakenly thought MJ stood for mini jumbo -- thought I'd seen that somewhere. Dream Guitars, perhaps? Anyway, the MJ is definitely more the shape I'm after -- beautiful design, btw, but I'm still interested in the smaller size of the SJ.

Now I'm really torn. Would there be any downside tonally to using the MJ shape on the SJ size? Of course, it'd have less bottom end, but probably still a bit fuller than an OM?

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Some may build a mini Jumbo and call it a MJ. I had assumed you were referring to the plans I have donated to the forums library of plans. Many shapes and dimensions are referred to as SJ and MJ by many builders. Martin jumbos have a more Dreadnaught shape, Gibson Jumbos ie J200 have a more curved shape. Confusing I know.

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

skulpter wrote:

Now I'm really torn. Would there be any downside tonally to using the MJ shape on the SJ size? Of course, it'd have less bottom end, but probably still a bit fuller than an OM?


Down side to MJ is you can't lay back in your recliner and comfortably play it due to the large lower bout like you can with the SJ or an OM gaah

Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

The MJ is just an SJ on Prozac.

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Hesh wrote:
The MJ is just an SJ on Prozac.



Not Prozac, Steroids! Congress is calling for a hearing to investigate unfair completive advantage over smaller body guitars Eat Drink :D

Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

I didn't know what you meant by "MJ." But now I get it: both SJ and MJ are abbreviated oxymorons. What's next, a JP?

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Howard Klepper wrote:
I didn't know what you meant by "MJ." But now I get it: both SJ and MJ are abbreviated oxymorons. What's next, a JP?



OK I'll bite JP?

Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

One of the Aussie luthiers has a "PJ" as one of his models. Petite Jumbo. A clever oxymoron, I think.

Dennis

Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

MichaelP wrote:
Howard Klepper wrote:
I didn't know what you meant by "MJ." But now I get it: both SJ and MJ are abbreviated oxymorons. What's next, a JP?



OK I'll bite JP?


Jumbo Parlor.

Author:  Allen McFarlen [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

I build the PJ, but I'm really liking that JP Howard. laughing6-hehe

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Howard Klepper wrote:
MichaelP wrote:
Howard Klepper wrote:
I didn't know what you meant by "MJ." But now I get it: both SJ and MJ are abbreviated oxymorons. What's next, a JP?



OK I'll bite JP?


Jumbo Parlor.

GOOD ONE

Author:  Mike_P [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

how about a modified dred similar to the one Ervin builds?...same amount of volume with a slight narrower waist for players who sit

Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Sooo, any thoughts on Michael's MJ shape superimposed on an SJ size? I'm planning to use koa b&s with an adirondack top with this. I believe this will be a good combo, but might the materials combined with the body style wind up a little on the snappy, bright side?

It's important to mention this will be mostly strummed and flatpicked, at least for the next ten years or so. :)

Author:  Billy T [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

I used to have real issues with terms SJ/MJ! This was because I didn't really recognise, as others had, that the proportion of bouts to waist and length was distinctive in the jumbo compared to smaller guitars! After recognizing this and seeing that I really liked, not just the size of the jumbo, but the shape too, I am much more comfortable with the terms.

I guess it would be somewhat analogous to,... God forbid,.... shrinking down a dreadalot and calling it an SD! I really, really hope this doesn't give anybody any bad ideas! laughing6-hehe

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

Billy T wrote:
I used to have real issues with terms SJ/MJ! This was because I didn't really recognise, as others had, that the proportion of bouts to waist and length was distinctive in the jumbo compared to smaller guitars! After recognizing this and seeing that I really liked, not just the size of the jumbo, but the shape too, I am much more comfortable with the terms.

I guess it would be somewhat analogous to,... God forbid,.... shrinking down a dreadalot and calling it an SD! I really, really hope this doesn't give anybody any bad ideas! laughing6-hehe



I guess using the nautical context of the name dreadnaught we can the extrapolate that a scaled down dreadnaught would either be a destroyer of Cruiser. Right? idunno

Author:  Billy T [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SJ vs. MJ?

MichaelP wrote:
Billy T wrote:
I really, really hope this doesn't give anybody any bad ideas! laughing6-hehe
I guess using the nautical context of the name dreadnaught we can the extrapolate that a scaled down dreadnaught would either be a destroyer of Cruiser. Right? idunno


Man Michael! Let's just let this "Cruiser" concept die! I got this really creepy feeling right now! gaah

laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

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