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I wanted to be sure to welcome you before Waddy did......
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| Fret slotting questions and Hello! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17468 |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Hello everyone! I am just getting back to building guitars after about a 20 year break. Over the last 20 years, I have been just doing guitar repair including neck sets and refins. I recently had a 1957 Gretsch 6121 Jet on my bench and made templates of the entire guitar before gluing the neck back on. It looks like an easy build. My first real stumbling block is fretboards. It appears there is no inexpensive way to tool up for this job. LMI or StewMac appear to be the only places that sell setups for this. Basically if I do them with the mitre box version, its $100 for the box and saw and another $40 for the first template. If I go the cirular saw version, its $70 for the blade and another $40 for the template. I then will need to build a sled for my table saw, or jig for my radial arm saw. I am also considering building a dedicate machine of some sort for this process. Maybe finding an old 6" or 8" craftsman table saw and set it up for slotting only. I don't want to go in business but want repeatable accurate results. Is there other options or other places to buy blades and templates that I am not aware of? Any options that are less expesive? I could buy them pre-done, but that takes some of the fun out of it. I do have a few old Fret saws (and small backsaws). One was bought from stew mac 20 years ago and is very small. Works fine for Mando's but I think might be to small for a guitar board. I think it is about 6" long. I will have to check the thickness of my 12" fret saw. I think both blades work on the push and not the pull though. (I will have to check this too).So there may be an option to build a mitre box version and maybe just use the templates. I made a version of this 20+ years ago, but never felt my frets were very accurate. This time I want them right! For machines, I am pretty well set up and what I don't have here, my dad does at his shop. We also have dupicates of most things between the two houses. My basic shop tools include: Bandsaw, table saw, jointer, planer, raidal arm saw, multiple routers/tables, sanders of all types, drill press etc. Plus, of course a slew of hand tools. Sorry for the ramble! PS: I tried the search function, but did not come up with anything that really answered my questions. Joe E |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Welcome Joe, it is possible to lay out a fretboard by hand and cut the slots by hand. Alan Carruth, an incredible luthier who frequents this forum, cuts all his fret slots by hand. I believe he tapes a scale to the fretboard, scribes marks at each fret position, and uses a square and appropriately sized backsaw (usually around .023") to cut the slots. His instruments are by far the best sounding guitars I've ever heard and there's never a hint of intonation problems. I think we sometimes get hung up on three place decimals. Just changing the pressure of your finger on a string will probably vary the pitch more than the fret being off by .005". If Alan is watching/listening he can probably give you a more accurate description of how he does it. If you intend to make several instruments with the same scale length, long term you might want to consider "tooling up," but there were certainly some beautiful sounding instruments made a century ago cutting the slots by hand.FWIW. Craig S. |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Thanks Todd and Craig. The MFret software is excellent. I had searched over there earlier, but had no luck. I did find it now...after I logged in. I had considered making the templates myself in the past and this really clinches the deal! I like the method of the transfer. I really only personally use 24.6" or 24.75" scales (Gibson style). So I only have to make one scale to start, though with your method, making a 24.75 and 25.5 on the stock would be quick and easy. So maybe I will after all. I did find that blade you metioned from High Mountain. I was concered that the Kirf was a little to wide. Stew Mac is using .022 (i think) and Hm is using .024. Is that enough of a difference that I would have to be concerned with which frets I buy? Really cool radius jig you were making too Todd. Did you finish the plans on that yet? I would love to build that jig as well! Joe E PS: I guess I should have mentioned, I am into Electric guitars with arched tops. Either solid bodies or Hollow. Just no Strats or Teles. No offense to those who do like them. I am currently building single cutaway solid bodies with chambers and a carved top. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
You can make a combination miter box and template that has a slot in the box for each fret slot, by starting with an accurately slotted board and using it as a guide for your saw when cutting the slots in the miter box. Or you can measure and cut carefully with a good rule, a venier or dial caliper and a square. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
My local saw shop will "side grind" a steel plywood blade (for table saw) to cut a specific kerf for about $20. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
JRE Productions wrote: I did find that blade you metioned from High Mountain. I was concered that the Kirf was a little to wide. Stew Mac is using .022 (i think) and Hm is using .024. Is that enough of a difference that I would have to be concerned with which frets I buy? No |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Welcome to the OLF Joe! I wanted to be sure to welcome you before Waddy did......
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Dang! Welcome to OLF, Joe! |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Thanks! Ok, so I printed the template from Wfret. I will scribe it on to an aluminum stock. I'll go ahead and make a regular guide pin style template and build the table saw bed. I'll just order the HM blade too. Thats about half the cost of ordering everything from LMI or SM. Thanks! J |
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Welcome Joe! Make sure your printout is accurate before you go any farther. Some printers don't quite print to scale. You probably already know this. |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret slotting questions and Hello! |
Hi Kirt. Thanks for the welcome too! What I did was printed the first few and measured to the 12th fret. Using the measurements they also included, I notice I was about 3/64" longer than I should be at the 12th. That would add an 3/16" to the over all scale. That's not good.... So I reduced the scale from 24.75 down to 24.65 and printed it again. It appears to be right on the mark now. I would think that even if it was longer or shorter...it probably would not be a big issues as long as the bridge is set in the right place. But I oviously want to ensure that the bridge placement is withing a given area so it looks right too! In my particular case, the guitars I am building in this batch will be simular to an archtop with a foating bridge. So all in all, it probably doesn't really matter in my case. I will start a post soon on the progress of these guitars. Right now I am halfway building the guitars and half way still tooling up. I am waiting for a beautifull older 4.25" jointer to arrive from an old cabinet shop. Should be here today or tomorrow. So I am in the mode of setting up shop too. I am trying to do "small scale" toolling at my shop, while my dad's shop has more of the full size "cabinet shop" tooling. He is about 12 miles from me, so I can use his machines when mine are undersized. My shop is set up a little more for detail type work, while his is more production. Joe |
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