Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17551		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  sdsollod [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
I have a gap in my binding at the waist. oops_sign I tried to pay particular attention to this area to make sure that the binding was tight, but got the gap anyway... gaah When I cut the channel for the purfling, I cut a little wide, but thought I could fill that area. I tried to heat the binding with a hair drier and pull it in, but I only got a little improvement. I have scraped everywhere but this location. I think if I go ahead and scrap this area I'll have a thin place. Any suggestions on how to pull the binding in?

Also, the top is WRC and I have some "construction ware". Can I fill this with LMI white glue or something else? I can do a little more sanding but maybe not a lot more...

Looks like the pictures are in reverse order...
Author:  Goobie [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
I'm sure others here with more experience than me will chime in, but here's my 2 cents worth...
The picture showing the gap on the side of the guitar (gap between the binding and the rosewood) can probably fixed with relative ease. Make some rosewood dust from sanding the endgrain of a piece of scrap and mix with epoxy and fill the gap. Make sure to get it all the way in there and leave a little extra on top. Then once, cured, scrape the excess away. This should be a fairly good fix and only noticeable to those looking for it. Another way that I have used for really small gaps is to sand the sides a little and let dust collect in the gap, then drop some thin CA in there.

As for the battle scars on the top, I don't think there is any real "fix" for this that won't show up in the final product. The same trick with dust and glue won't work as well on the top. In fact it may make it look worse. I wonder if the wood is actually gouged (i.e. material has been removed) or just compressed?!? If it's just compressed you may want to try a little water and/or steam to swell it back out in place. If it's gouged then you're probably SOL. If your top is already at final thickness I'd probably just leave it as is and level it out during the finish process...

The gap in the binding on the top side at the waist is much the same as scratches on the top. I don't think there is any "invisible" fix here. What you can probably do is use some lacquer burn in sticks (either clear, black or as close to the wood tone as you can get) and just melt a little in there to take up the gap.

I would certainly wait and see what others here have to say before trying these techniques, there may be some better ideas coming from more experienced people.

Cheers and Good Luck!
Chad
Author:  Colin S [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
On the top, check that this is all missing wood, it looks like a lot of it could be bruising where the wood has just got compressed. Hold the area over the steam from a kettle for a few seconds, if it is bruising then the steam will lift it out so that only a very light sanding is needed. You may need to do this a couple of times.

Colin
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
An alternative to the steam kettle is putting a small piece of wet rag on the area and rolling a soldering iron over it with a little pressure. Practice on some scrap first. I agree that it looks like you can improve it but probably not get a perfect fix.

For the binding, you might try the hair dryer thing (heat gun might be better if you are careful not to scorch the top) again with a clamping caul to spread out the force. If you do get some improvement, finish by wicking some thin CA into any gaps from the rosewood side.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
What the others said for the top dents.

For the binding gaps what I would do is this:

1) Press/squeegee some Titebond or LMI into the gap. Using 120 grit sand in only one direction starting from the wood that you want to fill the gap with. This means where the rosewood is start your sanding stroke over the rosewood and drag it off the guitar over the binding. This will make the rosewood dust fill the gap and you won't get a combo of different colored dust in the gap. If you sand back and forth the dust from the purf, bindings, and rosewood will combine and not match well.

2) Repeat this process again, starting with fresh glue, if needed and then the gap will be filled. You are sanding again in only one direction into and over the wet glue.

3) Do the same with the top filling the gap with the top wood using a single sanding stroke starting on the top and ending off the guitar.

The gaps are kind of large for this method so the fix may be slightly noticeable. On smaller gaps this works flawlessly.

Good luck.
Author:  sdsollod [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
Do you guys think that using an iron on a damp rag might be a good way to try to bring out to "dents" in the top ...maybe even use an iron for the binding? ...or what about the use of a curling iron to heat the binding enough to pull it into the the channel?
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
sdsollod wrote:
Do you guys think that using an iron on a damp rag might be a good way to try to bring out to "dents" in the top ...maybe even use an iron for the binding? ...or what about the use of a curling iron to heat the binding enough to pull it into the the channel?


Wet rag or paper towel / soldering iron is the usual trick to steam out dents. It swells the crushed fibers to where they're supposed to be, a few sessions are in order I think. Wet a small rag, put it between the damaged area and the iron, when the spot is dry on the rag move to a wet spot and so on.
The binding issue at the waist is a classic as well: either the binding channel is too shallow at this area, the purf channels have been enlarged and/or the bindings sprung back a bit and do not bend that well. Filling with dust and glue (if you do, use CA…) will result in black patches and will be very noticeable. How thick are the bindings?

It would be me I would try to swell back the damaged fibers on the top, if that works out acceptably I would then rout out the binding/purfs and do it again, in that order.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
Caveat: WRC sands very easily and quickly, much more than spruce. So after the dents are steamed out I would be very economical with the sanding to clean up.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Binding and Top Fix Help (pics)
that little tear off the top will sand out so that isn't a big deal. The little gaps are easy to fill and fix. On the spruce I use sanding dust and white glue. A few applications and you will get that filled. The binding gap on the side can be used to hide with CA and dust.
Binding is a hard technique to learn and learn well. The process of building is never ending and we keep perfecting technique. Simple repairs are often the most effective.
john hall
blues creek guitars
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/