Here is a better pic
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| Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17558 |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12342666@N04/2559669522/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12342666@N04/2558842917 Sticker translates to: Manufacturer of stringed instruments "The Serenade" Guaranteed to Work For wholesale and retail |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Here is a better pic
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Looks like an inexpensive Spanish (or perhaps Mexican) guitar. The machine heads are a later addition as it most likely had wooden friction pegs. It's old enough to have the traditional hanging hole in the headstock but the presence of a telephone number on the label makes me think the 1930's give or take a decade. I don't read Spanish, perhaps someone can give a translation of the label which would help. Probably should switch out the steel strings for nylon too. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
I agree with David as to the origin but I think that it is not that old - perhaps 1960's. |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
thanks for info. do you think it holds any value at all? if not i'd like to shave down the bridge a bit to lower the action and make it sound a little better. the translation is given in my first post. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
I would wait a bit and let some others here weigh-in to be sure. |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
any other ideas? |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
I'd agree with Hesh and say probably around the 60's. It doesn't hold any value at all - basically a cheap flea market guitar, perhaps worth $25-$50 if it plays accaptably? Do what you will to try and improve it - no one will hold any alterations or slipped chisels against you if it doesn't work. 
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Thanks a lot. It will serve as a nice backup. Once I lower the action it will probably even give my low end Fender a run for it's money. I do think it is a hand made guitar. And I do think this knot ended up in a peculiar place: 
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Well, I still think it may be older than the 60's but no matter. I'm assuming that this guitar either has a few simple fan braces, or in the case of a guitar I bought on ebay recently harmonic bars only and no fans at all. Your choice of strings is kind of dictated by this........are those steel on it now? As I said before, you should set it up for nylons unless it is much more heavily braced than I suspect it is. These old (and yes crudely made by our standards) Spanish guitars are something of an acquired taste and have a charm to them. If I am right about the tuners being added and the guitar originally had friction pegs retrofitting it will bring back some of that charm. Here is my Spanish guitar wall of recent acquisitions: Attachment: Spanish wall.jpg
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
I'll restring it with nylons when I make the action adjustment. The wood around the soundhole is actually a bit brighter in a nice squared off fashion, leaving me to believe there once was a pickguard there. That's a nice collection you've got there, how old are those guitars? |
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
The smallest is a Roca and probably from the 60's, the middle one is a Casa Gonzalez and is probably late forties/early 50's. The largest is I think the oldest and is labeled Guilliermo Mueller Y Cardivar and is probably c. 1910-25. These are all quite inexpensive examples and the smallest two I think perhaps were made for the tourist trade................? I'm thinking that yours is all solid wood and the top is slab cut and has the appearance of plywood when in fact it is not?? |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Nice. It's interesting that something that old can be still worth very little. Regardless of the quality. Cheaply made children's toys that were mass produced back in the early 1900's are still valued by antique collectors. The guitar does appear to have the plywood looking "top slab" that you described and the neck joins the body at the 14th fret. The guitar did have ridiculously old steel strings on it when I found it. I don't play classical guitar. Do you think it would be unsafe to restring it with super light steel strings? Check out how bad these holes were drilled: 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
I have seen some classicals with "Silk and Steel" strings on them, but I would sure check the bracing first to see what I actually have. |
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Some additional pics would be great, edge of the top where it meets the sides, heel , back etc........... |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Yeah master Luthiers back then would tune the guitar for a balanced response by adjusting the individual break angles for each string AND they used pinless bridges too. Or - they were drunk when they made it.........  I love old guitars too and that is one of the best things that I see when I visit David Collins. They are fascinating and it is also interesting that many of the things that we seek to demystify were often simply the result of a building methodology that placed great importance on building them economically aka cheaply...... But they worked, sometimes producing legendary tone, and were priced within reach of the masses - often. My first guitar was a piece of junk but in a way I owe it all to that red, bursted Silvertone with action so high you could slice hard boiled eggs with it. I actually wish that I still had it or one like it. |
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| Author: | lifelikechild [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
   
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Check out the kerfing! Mike |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to figure out the possible age/history of this guitar |
Tentellones, as opposed to kerfed lining. Commonly used to attach the top, while solid bent or kerfed linings are commonly found on the back. At first I wasn't sure if it was from Spain or perhaps Paracho, but the tentellones are a key, as it's a traditional style, more commonly found in Spain. So it's an economy Spanish made guitar. Crude workmanship, cheap materials, basically an average tourist souvenir or basic beginner instrument, I'd still say 60's-ish. Really, maybe a $25-$50 guitar. That said, it still doesn't mean it can't be a fun and good sounding instrument. Just don't worry too much about the details, preservation, or builder's original intentions. Just do what it takes to make it play how you want, and have fun with it. As to whether it was originally intended for steel or nylon, it's probably not that delicately built and it probably doesn't matter much what it was originally intended for. If it has a narrow nut and short scale for a classical, I would probably string it up with light gauge steel strings and make it a campfire guitar. Or if the bracing seems a bit light for regular steels, silk and steels are a good compromise. Or if you want nylon, use nylon. My opinion. Or just look at the nut, and it should be pretty apparent what type of strings it is set up for. If the G slot is wider than the D, than it had nylons on it before. |
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