| Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Back of Headstock Veneer http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17564 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | sdsollod [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Back of Headstock Veneer |
Many builders will have a curve at the back of the headstock that is located where a volute would go and a veneer that follows that curve. How do you do that? Do you have to curl that venner with heat before you glue it on? How thick should the veneer be? I have some pretty thin veneer that might be too thin for this purpose... How thin can you go? Its a pretty tasty treatment. 
|
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Hi Steve, I have seen some pretty fancy jigs for this, but what I have found works well and it quick to make and cheap is a double stack of 1/4" dowels. man I wish I had a picture handy! Basically, I make what looks like a little raft, use masking tape to hold them together and lay them on the back of the head stock, with the dowels going side to side, then using quick grip clamps, I clamp it down and the dowels push in all the right spots. I see if I can dig up a pic.. |
|
| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
sdsollod wrote: Many builders will have a curve at the back of the headstock that is located where a volute would go and a veneer that follows that curve. How do you do that? Do you have to curl that venner with heat before you glue it on? How thick should the veneer be? I have some pretty thin veneer that might be too thin for this purpose... How thin can you go? Its a pretty tasty treatment. I use commercial veneers and vulcanized fiber (black) for this and I usually give it a little bend on a pipe. It is pretty easy and if you are careful it really doesn't break. I have a gluing cork lined caul that matches the curve in the headstock (but I like Lance's idea). |
|
| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I use my cutaway attachment from my side bender. It has a 2" diameter caul and I use my sationary belt sander that happens to have a 2" diameter end to shape the back of the peghead. I built a little jig to hold the cutaway attachment vertically and screw the press down with a cork caul and wax paper between the caul and the wood. I use varying numbers and species of veneers to get the look I want. It's very simple and I don't have to deal with any clamps. The screw press is much easier for me to control. I don't have any pics right now, but I'll see if I can dig up some later if anyone is interested. |
|
| Author: | sdsollod [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Lance, I sure would like to see a pic of the dowel caul you are referring to, if you can find one... Brock, How thick are the commercial veneers that you use? |
|
| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
sdsollod wrote: Lance, I sure would like to see a pic of the dowel caul you are referring to, if you can find one... Brock, How thick are the commercial veneers that you use? .02" ish... |
|
| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Coming from the Lance Kragenbrink basement of luthiery and in some 2nd hand passoff of Brock Poling luthiery: I recently did two 'back of headstock with volute' veneers that came out very nicely. I was using cocobolo and sanded the sheets to about 0.060"...Then I used a propane torch and heated up a piece of old brass pipe 1" OD...Then using leather gloves, I gently formed an approximate curve in the coco to match the 1.5" radius volute in the head stock...Make sure you do not burn the veneer!!!it is pretty thin with not much room to sand out... Then, as per Lance's behest, I cut some 1/4" dowels to about 3 in lengths and gently taped them all together - like a handful of straws. To glue it up, I clamped the veneer to the headstock with a flat board pushed up to the volute...Then placed the dowel bundle in the remaining space and clamped that down...Hopefully the depiction helps a bit... Stephen |
|
| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I use back or side material cutoffs and thin it to about 2 mm (same as my sides), then bend this piece on a hot pipe and glue it to the headstock with a shaped caul. The volute / headstock transition radius mathces the radius of the drum on my sander (75 mm), as it is a byproduct of thinning the back of headstock on the drum sander. |
|
| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I know it's a banjo, but I have always been fond of the backstrap. 
|
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
That's it! Great illustration Steve! |
|
| Author: | Jloc222 [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I did mine almost exactly as Lance suggested. Took me a while to get there though, broke a couple trying other methods and still had to sand out a minor burn that I got at the last second. Thankfully I got some key advice just as I ran out of the bubinga I was using. I don't think I could have gotten the cap on without bending it on the pipe first as the volute, made the transition pretty steep. It was still just roughed in here, its cleaned up quite a bit since then. Jason 
|
|
| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I just started doing them and also used the belt sander for the initial curve and bent the veneer on a pipe. I used a dowel flattened on one side to clamp the curved portion but really like the multiple dowel thing Lance showed. I don't like the big volutes so mine are a little easier with less curve. They do look classy. Terry  
|
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Mine are pretty standard. Attachment: PB110079.jpg
|
|
| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
That's nice Lance! Ever run into problems with geared tuners hitting the curve of the volute? Terry |
|
| Author: | SniderMike [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Lance Kragenbrink wrote: Mine are pretty standard. Attachment: PB110079.jpg Yours are pretty shiny! I've been setting up a fence on the spindle sander to get the initial curve on the neck wood. Then I use the same rubber drum from said spindle sander (I take the sanding sleeve off), to clamp the venner, along with a flat caul for the flat part. |
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Lance Kragenbrink wrote: Mine are pretty standard. Attachment: PB110079.jpg Thanks Terry & Mike, not yet! But I am aware of that issue so I am careful. |
|
| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I made a tilting table that mounts at the end of my belt sander to carve in the curve on the back of the head stock. The veneer is usually left over from back or sides. I thin to about 1.5mm and bend on a hot pipe. Use a caul with a bit of medium density rubber to help even out clamping pressure. |
|
| Author: | TonyKarol [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I sand the back of the headstock to thickness, and get the volute for free, in my thickness sander - it has a 6 inch drum. So then , I took some scrap maple, marked and cut the top in half, and then sanded the same contour into the bottom half of said maple. Shape the top portion to fit on the disc sander, and now you have the exact shape for bending the back plate as you do on the back of the headstock. You pretty much have to bend if you are using anything over about 40 thou ... especially when you use 3-4 piece bookmatch layups to get the plate. I am usually using somthing around 70-80 thou for my plates. |
|
| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I usually make the back veneer about .04 and laminate a skin of .01 black fiber to it first. The black fiber helps it to stop from cracking when forced into the shape, I don't bother heat bending it. I made a clamp with one side half of a 1 1/4 dowel with the round side down and as long as that pushes into the deepest part of the arc, it locks the veneer in place cleanly every time. So far so good at least. |
|
| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Ziegenfuss wrote: Make sure you do not burn the veneer!!!it is pretty thin with not much room to sand out... To help with burning... you can take a wet wash cloth and lay it on your pipe. After it steams off for a minute or so (but while it is still semi damp) you can bend over the wash cloth and it helps prevent scorching. |
|
| Author: | sdsollod [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I have a Performax 10-20. Does anybody know if you can "disengage" the "conveyer belt" so that it will move freely? I thought that this could be a good way to sand the back of the headstock to put on the veneer.... ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
|
|
| Author: | jmanter [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
I have the performax 16-32 and i thought of this same thing. The problem I see with it is the guide rollers would be in the way... |
|
| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
ive been pondering the use of my 10-20 to shape the volute on a neck. has anyone done it? i was thinking of removing the rollers just for the procedure, then reinstalling them later. they are not difficult to adjust. you could then just turn the conveyor off and use a sled to guide the neck into the drum. |
|
| Author: | Addam Stark [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
One builder I finish for has me tape up and paint the back of the headstock black. It is only for looks when you do this but it is another way to go. Many vintage gibson, archtops and mandos have this. Good to be back on the forum! I have been gone for a few month "Not much time for internet" but I am happy to be posting and reading posts again!!!
|
|
| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Back of Headstock Veneer |
Welcome back Addam! I tried to brainstorm a way to use my Performax to shape headstocks. Nothing looked like it would work very well so I went ahead and made the belt sander jig I'd been putting off for a long time. Didn't take long, works great, and I use it all the time. That's probably the best way to go if you have a volute. If you don't use a volute the drill press disk sander is good for thicknessing. Terry 
|
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|