Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:22 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:21 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 1213
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Ringo
A while back I found myself with a nice set of Indian Rosewood, but unfortunately it was covered with some ugly stains. I decided to build with it anyway and gild the resulting guitar with metal leaf as an excuse to explore different colors and textures not normally associated with guitars. The result was a 28" scale steel string baritone. I thought I would share my methods and results.

For those unfamiliar with gilding, it is simply the application of a very thin layer of metal to a surface. It has been practiced for centuries and in all those years the process hasn't changed much. The basic process for gilding wood goes something like this: first the surface is primed with a light coat of shellac. Next a coat of adhesive, or 'size', is painted on. Once the size is tacky a metal leaf is applied (leaf is just an extremely thin sheet of metal like gold, silver, copper, etc) and finally the leaf is burnished into the surface. Depending on how the leaf is applied one can get all kinds of different textural effects. Sometimes chemicals can be applied which react with the metal to mimic various patinas or tarnishes that metals take on as they age. Metals like gold and aluminum are non-reactive so patinas are not possible; however, metals like silver, copper, dutch metal, or pretty much anything that oxidizes or tarnishes, will react with a wide array of chemicals and can produce stunning colors and textures depending on how and how long they are applied. For this project I chose copper as the metal and a Barium Sulfide solution to produce the chemical patina.

Here's the guitar in question, it is sitka spruce with cocobolo bridge and fingerboard:

Image

Applying the copper leaf: on this section I kind of swirled the leaf around while applying it to get a swirly texture. In this picture I have the purflings masked with tape and am tamping the leaf down into the edge with a very soft brush which is taped for support:

Image

Here is another section, where I left the size somewhat softer than normal and applied the leaf by tapping it into the wood with my fingertip. The valleys you see are the pores of the wood; the other texture you see is the imprint left by my fingerprints:

Image

The same section with Barium Sulfide solution added to get the chemical patina:

Image

Some of the colors:

Image
Image

It was a pretty big pain to scrape away the excess leaf and size around the purfling with an exacto knife... next time I might wait until after gilding to rout the binding/purfling channels.

Image

The finished back:

Image

Here's a cool trick: I sprayed thin lines of shellac then very very lightly and carefully sanded the result with a very fine grit. The result looks uniform straight on and like a curly figure at certain angles:

Image

There are other features the photos don't capture. I will be bringing this guitar to the GAL convention in June. Come check it out and say hello!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:37 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:35 am
Posts: 211
That is way too creative Lex. I am impressed, and wish I were going to the GAL convention to see it. What are you finishing it with?

John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:52 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:25 pm
Posts: 7202
Location: United States
That's wild....!

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:50 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13388
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Way cool Ringo! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

The GAL should give you a free lifetime membership since you are the only member with a truly gilded guitar.... :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:38 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:31 am
Posts: 587
Location: Tacoma, WA
Cool, I can't wait to see it at GAL. It sounds like you have done gilding in the past. Would you do this on a guitar again?

_________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:52 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
That is way cool. What an interesting process and look. Nice work.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:28 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 1213
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Ringo
John, the finish is a light french polish over stripes of sprayed shellac rubbed out to a semi-gloss sheen. I think a high gloss would look very out of place with the very old look of the patina. I guess technically it's not a French polish since I didn't fill any pores or get it to a high gloss... maybe that makes it just a Fre polish?

Chansen wrote:
Would you do this on a guitar again?


Oh sure, but it really took a lot of time the way I did it. I will certainly change a few things next time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:45 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:46 am
Posts: 2969
Location: United States
That came out really nice.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:40 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 am
Posts: 159
Location: Baltimore, MD
This is an inexpressively groovy thing. I had thought to try Metal Master paint, with an acid wash for patina, but chickened out. I CAN tell you that finishing before routing the binding channels was a nonstarter - I tried it! Wherever the 30k spinning bearing touched down, it melted and then grabbed the living bejeepers out of the topcoat, removing it down into the primer and creating a noticeable divot sideways into the top and bottom, which I had to fair out and rerout.

Dan

_________________
Dan
http://www.acme-archtops.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:41 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 am
Posts: 159
Location: Baltimore, MD
This is an inexpressively groovy thing. I had thought to try Metal Master paint, with an acid wash for patina, but chickened out. I CAN tell you that finishing before routing the binding channels was a nonstarter - I tried it! Wherever the 30k spinning bearing touched down, it melted and then grabbed the living bejeepers out of the topcoat, removing it down into the primer and creating a noticeable divot sideways into the top and bottom, which I had to fair out and rerout.

Dan

_________________
Dan
http://www.acme-archtops.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:31 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:03 am
Posts: 456
Location: Toronto, Canada
Very cool.

_________________
David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:00 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 4337
Location: United States
Ringo, I'm stoked you're bringing that to Tacoma.
Yet another reason to look forward to the trip.
Such a cool look... can't wait to see it up close.

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:20 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:05 pm
Posts: 3350
Location: Bakersville, NC
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Amazing!! Great job!! I bet it took some guts to pull that one off! bliss

[clap] [clap]

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:39 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:55 am
Posts: 1505
Location: Lorette, Manitoba, Canada
I like it. I like it a lot!

I also like how you pulled it off so that it doesn't come out stupid goofy, THAT takes skill!

OK, so it looks great, how is it just as a guitar? Pretty good I expect.

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:29 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 1644
Location: United States
City: Duluth
State: MN
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Ringo,

What a cool and unique finish! Yet another way to take ho-hum back and side sets and pump up the aesthetics. I do love wood, and I do like the restrained look of plain looking back & side sets sometimes, and highly figured wood at other times, but this is a really cool variant that really stands on its own.

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:56 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:08 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Denver, Colorado
dang, that's cool!

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:39 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 1969
Location: United States
Ringo,
That is so cool!

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Dmaxwell and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com