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| trade secrets - hide glue http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17752 |
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| Author: | jmanter [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | trade secrets - hide glue |
Just a few minutes ago, I got the latest stew-mac trade secrets e-mail. It is about using HHG. At the bottom of the page is a tip from Don Macrostie to heat the glue to 180 F to get more open time. This goes against everything I've heard about HHG... Opinions? - Justin |
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| Author: | jmanter [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
That is exactly what I was thinking... |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Me too, but what do I know? It is pretty cheap, if you buy it bulk, and it is easy to mix in small quantities, so one use then throw out is not too bad a philosophy. Mix in very small batches, keep them in the fridg., heat, use and toss. Over at LF, there is a discussion on glues, and someone recommended putting a small amount of salt in the glue to extend open time. I had never heard that before. He said it has a similar effect to urea, but without the smell. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Maybe we should email Dan and ask him to explain further and ask him about this directly? It goes against what I learned as well. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
WaddyT wrote: someone recommended putting a small amount of salt in the glue to extend open time. I had never heard that before. He said it has a similar effect to urea, but without the smell. This is actually the long-lost secret to the great sound achieved by Antonio Stradivari. Really! Would I tell a fib?! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
I responded to the Newsletter, and asked someone to join our discussion. Probably won't happen, but who knows? |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
I am not a HHG user yet but the recommendation of liquid hide glue as as an acceptable if slightly inferior substitute seems to go against all advice I have seen here. "What about bottled hide glue? If that’s the way for you to give hide glue a try, go for it. But use it before the expiration date on the bottle: hide glue has to be fresh in order to cure properly. (I learned this the hard way on a Martin repair years ago!) Mixing your own in a glue pot’s the best way to go." |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
WaddyT wrote: I responded to the Newsletter, and asked someone to join our discussion. Probably won't happen, but who knows? You can't hit reply on the newsletter. It goes to the email server, not a human. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
I just emailed Dan directly and asked him about this - more to come when he replies. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Brock Poling wrote: WaddyT wrote: I responded to the Newsletter, and asked someone to join our discussion. Probably won't happen, but who knows? You can't hit reply on the newsletter. It goes to the email server, not a human. There is a link to respond to the newsletter. It takes you to the website, and an email deal, that has a scroll down box with the Technical Newsletter as one of the items to respond to. So that's what I did. The response I got said someone would get back to me within 24 hours. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
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| Author: | curtis [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
TonyFrancis wrote: looks like they only sell in 30kg bags...not sure i can eat that much!! looks like it'd be good, if they've been making it for 120yrs they must be doing something right. dont fancy a factory visit too much though!! |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Here is the reply that I received from Dan (or someone using Dan's name) this morning: Hesh: He doesn't heat all his current glue that hot; just enough for the job at hand. It might be 170°, or 165° — hard to measure. He also doesn't heat the same glue that hot over and over. If the glue is fresh it seems to have no bad side effects. Dan On Jun 26, 2008, at 9:28 PM, Hesh Breakstone User wrote: > Hi Dan: > > In your recent Trade Secrets email you mention the use of hot hide > glue at > 180 degrees F. Will this high a temperature not break down the glue? > > Many thanks in advance for your very valued assistance and knowledge > sharing! > > Hesh Breakstone |
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| Author: | curtis [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
feel a bit guilty about asking for a free sample... ..not that guilty though.....maybe i can send a sample of cash for their troubles |
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| Author: | jmanter [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
I ordered a 120kg's of the stuff, which should cover the next few years production for me. If you ask them they send out free 2lb samples, and I believe are now set up for smaller volume sales, but it would be worth doing a group buy if there are enough folks here interested. Hide glue is amazingly affordable, especially when purchased in bulk, and has no shelf life if stored correctly. It is important to remember these guys are setup for factorys and large wholesale and even two 60kg sacks was a small amount for them. I thanked them profusley and told them we were not book binding factorys but rarther guitarmakers and loved the quality of their product! Tony Perhaps there is a sponsor who would be interested in purchasing this stuff for resale in smaller quantities?....... - Justin |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Dan replied to me a second time and here is what he said: Hesh: I should also add that I always test hide glue for it's hardness and drying ability the day before using it whenever possible because I'm a bit of a worrier; also, I always dab a smear of the glue in use onto a piece of wood — watching how it dries as the job at hand is drying. Also, sometimes I use the bottled, liquid hide glue, but always test that for drying, and usually use it in not-to- serious situations (not for bridge, neck-setting, bracing, bridge- pad, and other "serious" uses. Thanks for asking a good question, and I hope this helps. Dan |
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| Author: | Frei [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
Cool, 155* next time, for tops and backs ! 
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: trade secrets - hide glue |
[Dan replied to me a second time and here is what he said: "Also, sometimes I use the bottled, liquid hide glue, but always test that for drying, and usually use it in not-to- serious situations (not for bridge, neck-setting, bracing, bridge- pad, and other "serious" uses. " Dan[/quote] That leaves sticking on the label I guess for the liquid hide. Not what the newsletter implied at all |
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