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Chiseling braces away
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17780		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Chiseling braces away
I just recently attempted this and ended up ruining a top. Is there a tutorial on this somewhere? I don't understand the concept at all. I feel like I got the hang of shaping the braces but when I had to chisel braces off I got lots of tearout. I could plane them down to about 1/64 fairly well but when it came to actually getting down to top wood I had all kinds of problems.

Thanks Jeremy
Author:  Steve Walden [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Jeremy - I feel your pain, bro. Even though I have never had to do it since I have never built a guitar I wanted to comiserate.

Can anyone here send him a new top? And some bracewood, and a rosette? Or, is there a redeemable top there? Can you use a hair dryer and a hot scraper to remove the last little bit?

Hang in there, help is on the way!
Author:  SkyHigh [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Jeremy,

Did you use the radius dish to sand the braces? I'm curious to why they don't have a good fit.

Thanks, David
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Thanks Steve. No the top is definitely not redeemable.

David, no I don't have a sanding dish.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
when carving your braces flip your chisel upsidedown (that is chamfer down) and use your wrist to push the handle of the chisel down as you cut.
try do do shallowish cuts and do them in one fliud cut this will hep you get chamfer the ends of the braces.

as for carving the shape if you are beginer go to pilgrims prodjects a get a ibex finger plane it will make your life much easier.
you can also use these to put a chamfer at the ends but perfer a chisel myself.

as for not having a radius dish i did my first guitar without one and all you have to do draw on your radius with a bent metel rule (marking a curve from 0mm in the middle of the brace-the depth of the radius at the end) then carve this down with a block plane making sure you follow rhe curve perfectly.
you will need to start with a square and flat brace and you will need to get the face nice and square to the edge of the brace when you have finished or else your braces wont fit well.
even a slight side to side curve on the brace will result in gaps that will make them ineffective for a guitar.

if you need a good tutorial may i suggest john mayes' dvd on voicing guitar tops its very good to give you an idea of what you need to do.
you can contat him through his website or through the forum.

good luck,
joel.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
John Mayes excellent videos are now available and in stock from John Watkins at http://www.cncguitarparts.com
Author:  Dave White [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Jeremy,

I assume you are talking about removing braces rather than shaping them. When I have to do this I chisel them as low as I can get without risking touching the top with the chisel and then sand them down to the top's level - I use my belt sander as I don't have a thickness sander. This only works of course if all the braces are coming off the top.
Author:  Frei [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
What probably happened is you were grabbing the glue with your chisel that wasn't sharp enough to cut it, so it grabbed and ripped. Was your chisel scary sharp?
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
And if you get tearout, i suppose you need to carve from the opposite direction.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Yeh that's what I'm talking about Dave. A sanding block and some tape in the right places would probably work well too.

Thanks Todd, the bracing carving jig looks like a good idea.

joel I used that same method.

Frei, I think your right. It sounds like thats what was happening. I did use the scary sharp system to sharpen them. I could sorta shave the hair off my arm with them but since used them to shape the back braces. But it sounds like from yours and Todd's description of what should and what should not be happening that they were not sharp enough.

"A combination of an effective, flexible holding fixture, proper, safe technique, and a sharp edge makes cleaning off a plate a 5 minute job, with a bit of scraping or warm water taking the residue with it."

I definitely wasn't doing something right cause I think it took me an hour and a half before I finally ripped a big chunk out of the top. I guess while I wait on a new top I'll sharpen my chisels ;)
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
ToddStock wrote:
If you can't salvage a piece of topwood larger than necessary for something like a Terz, slap a bunch of scrap braces to the now useless top (use lumber yard spruce if you don't have scraps), and practice shaping, scalloping, tapering, and then removing braces. It hurts to buy another top after a screwup, but probably a good idea to get used to it, as experience results in more interesting - rather than fewer - opportunities to mess up.


I plan on doing that. I've got plenty of scraps to use. It'll be good to test the sharpness of my chisels too, since that's something that I need to work on also. It is disappointing but it doesn't change anything. I'm going to finish the guitar no matter how many parts I have to rebuild.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
Hey dont feel bad you are doing well for your first solo top.

you can not learn unless you make mistakes.
in fact if you ask even the most experienced luthiers here they will admit that they make mistakes all the time and that part of the art of building a hand built guitar learning to repair any mistakes you make along the way (lots in my case)

at least you are aware of the problem and prepard to start again.
alot of people find it hard to amid they have made a critcal error.

make the most of this situation and use the useless top to practice carving down to the level of the top.

good luck i hope the next one goes better for you.

Joel.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chiseling braces away
joel Thompson wrote:
Hey dont feel bad you are doing well for your first solo top.

you can not learn unless you make mistakes.
in fact if you ask even the most experienced luthiers here they will admit that they make mistakes all the time and that part of the art of building a hand built guitar learning to repair any mistakes you make along the way (lots in my case)

at least you are aware of the problem and prepard to start again.
alot of people find it hard to amid they have made a critcal error.

make the most of this situation and use the useless top to practice carving down to the level of the top.

good luck i hope the next one goes better for you.

Joel.


Thanks Joel [:Y:]
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