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| Fretting "Epoxy Style" http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17865 |
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| Author: | RaymundH [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
I am about to attempt an epoxy fretting process(see attached link) and am wondering if any forum members have tried as well?? My fret slots are already cut wider for it so it's so there's no turning back now.  http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/l ... tting.html Thanks, Ray |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Ray, I just spent some time checking out your site. I appreciate your documentaion. I learned a few things along the way! I'd love to see more! Some of that ought to be posted here, or at least post updates on the site here to the OLF. I appreciate your work. Thanks for posting. Are you in PA? |
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| Author: | RaymundH [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Terry, Unfortunately, this is not my site! I found it while searching for a way to glue in my frets and was trying to see if any other members had tried this process. It is a very insteresting tutorial non the less. Ray |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Your frets should always be glued in whether using this method or a tight fitting slot to tang method and hammer or press to install them. I press my frets in an still glue them with LMI's white glue. I've never understood the desire to use this loose slot/epoxy method since it's so much more work than a conventional method. What led you to choose it over the much cleaner, quicker and easier methods that are used? There have been lots of guitars, both custom and production, that have come across my repair benches for loose frets or ends popping up to have them either replaced or glued back down. I've had four guitars from one young builder who has become bery popular in the past four years come to me with as many as five or six loose frets or lifted ends....and none of them were more than two years old. One was only a week old when it came to me with three or four frets lifted at one one end, the other or both. I finally gave him a call to discuss his fretting technique. He's now gluing his frets down and using a slot that's .003" smaller. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Ray in addition to what Kevin said Mario uses HHG not only as a glue but as a lubricant to help the frets seat completely. He also presses the frets. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Hesh wrote: Ray in addition to what Kevin said Mario uses HHG not only as a glue but as a lubricant to help the frets seat completely. He also presses the frets. I believe it's the Franklin Liquid Hide Glue that Mario uses for frets ...not HHG. |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Why do you have to glue in the frets? Couldn't you just hammer or press them in and then knock them side-ways to set the barbs? |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Thanks JJ for the correction. Chuck some builders don't glue in the frets but Kevin gives some good reasons why you want to glue them. I believe that David Collins will have something to say here too. I have done it both ways but these days I am gluing them because some of the pros that I know recommend it. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
That epoxy fretting pictorial looks to be straight out of the Don Teeter school of fretting. It was a big trend in the 70's and 80's, but fell out of favor before long due to it's distinct effect on tone. There are some who still prefer it (I believe all of Geoff Stelling's banjos are still epoxy fretted), but it's certainly less popular with guitars. It's not difficult at all though. That pictorial has about all the key points that are the norm. There may be some differences in how people wax, scrape, or mask the board, but that method will work fine. It does secure the frets well, allows for consistent installation, and actually ends up with a very nice appearance as the epoxy neatly fills and smoothes out any rolled bottom corner of the bead on the fret. As to gluing for conventional fret work, I'm with Kevin that it is a necessity rather than an option. Water based glues are great, as even if they don't bond ideally with metals, they can swell the wood around the barbs and harden it in that position. I honestly don't know the bonding properties of PVA's with metals, but hide glue and especially fish glue are exceptional at bonding metal to wood (not gap filling however, as is needed in your case). On refrets or in seating loose ends, low viscosity CA is wonderful, as it wicks in to a tight joint, bonds to wood and metal, dries hard, has moderately good gap filling properties, and is easily reversible with heat. For your case where the slots are already widened, the link you gave is a fine guide. When refretting old epoxy fret jobs, I personally add crimping of the tang to the procedure. Though I still glue them in with epoxy, I feel adding at least some compression to the board and more solid metal-to-wood contact can help recover some of the tones lost in conventional epoxy fretting. I haven't redone enough of these epoxy fret jobs to say that with certainty, but I feel it's at least a step in the right direction. |
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| Author: | RaymundH [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Thanks for all the great response guys...Very much appreciated! I am not sure who said it but "necessity is the mother of invention" really rings true in this case. The board in question is an incredible landscape ziricote piece from Steve at Colonial that I wish I didn't have to put frets on at all.  However, with the oops on the fret slots I really have no choice on process thus the "epoxy method!"I have spoken directly with a few guys around the US who use this process and they are quite pleased with their results. I also asked about future refrets and they said a soldering gun makes short work of the old glue and they simply dremel out the old excess glue. And hey at the end of the day I'm a beginner and will now have the opportunity to try something new. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Again, thanks for the insight and thoughts, Ray |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fretting "Epoxy Style" |
Ray, Be sure to let us know how the fret job comes out. I love a great piece of Zircote. It really is a shame to have to break it up with frets isn't it? I'm sure it will look great when you're done. All the best, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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