Official Luthiers Forum!

I just got a used mini fridge for my shop. I know I should refrigerate CA glues. I also know that PVA glues (Titebond, LMI white, etc) will last longer if refrigerated, and that fish glue should be refrigerated or frozen. I'm not using hide glue much at this point, but I'd be interested in hearing how/if people use refrigeration in their hide glue methodology.

Basically, I have three questions:

First, what other glues, solvents, or odd and sundry substances would you recommend I refrigerate? (Beer... yeah, I know.) E.g. shellac (in either solid or dissolved form), etc...???

Second, have you noticed any difference in the performance of any glues when used cold, right out of the fridge? Is it a good idea to keep a small amount of certain glues at room temperature because they perform better warmer?

Third, is there anything you would specifically recommend NOT keeping in the fridge for any reason? One thought I have is that anything containing a volatile solvent, such as Starbond CA accelerator, which contains acetone, might be best kept out, for fear of vapors building up in the fridge due to lack of ventilation. Any thoughts on that, or other reasons not to refrigerate certain things?

Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd buddy my fridge has CA, CA accelerator, Fish glue, and HHG when I am working with it.

I get my Fish glue from David Collins and he gets a fresh batch annually. He told me to keep it refrigerated when not in use so I do.

I have kept CA accelerator in the fridge on and off for probably 15 years and except for the second head that I grew I see no ill effects......

I don't store Titebond in the fridge but try to purchase a fresh bottle every 6-9 months or so.

If I had a fridge and freezer in my shop I would keep ice cream (Ben and Jerry's) in it and if there was no room I would toss the glue until I had room for the ice cream..... Priorities ya know....

I keep my CA and hide glue in the refrigerator. I haven't decided if I like fish glue or not yet, if I do then it'll probably go in there, too.

For CA I keep the big bottles in the refrigerator and/or freezer (it's a mini-fridge, so I can't fit the CA bottles in the freezer parts) and I refill the little squirt bottles from those. I leave the squirt bottles out in the shop. If you get CA too hot for too long it won't cure without accelerator, this I have discovered (left a bottle in the car). That said, I've never had a bottle go bad at room temp before I emptied it.

For hide glue I keep the baby-food jar (thanks, Al) I'm currently using in the fridge and re-heat daily in the water bath (I use a teacup on a coffee-cup warmer, thanks Al...again). I keep the rest of the jars frozen solid (thanks, Al) and if I need to reheat them initially I might nuke them in the microwave gently before I put them in the water bath (thanks, Al). Also, Al taught me most everything I know about hide glue.

I find a 2L of milk won't go bad out of the fridge if you're drinking it all day, you're always drinking the warmer stuff that floats to the top so the stuff below doesn't get warm. If I'm not going to be drinking it for awhile, I put it back in the fridge. I leave my milk in the fridge except when I'm drinking it. So long as you drink off the warm stuff, you can still stick it back in the fridge overnight and it'll stay good even if it dropped to nearly room temperature. It's harder to tell if chocolate milk has gone bad, so be extra careful with it. Gatorade and Fruitopia will keep well in or out of the fridge, but are gross warm, so keep 'em in there.

There, that's all the stuff I keep in my shop fridge.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

First time I heard of anyone keeping Cyanoacrylate in the fridge. I have thin, medium, and thick in large bottles. Do you have to let them acclimate to room temperature before using? I also keep hide glue and LMI white in the fridge.

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

I read in a couple places hide glue should only be used the same day it was first heated. Is that heavily over-cautious?

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Build log

Chuck buddy CA will last longer if you keep it in the fridge when not in use. This can double the life of a bottle and most places that sell "quality" CAs will keep the back stock in the fridge and/or rotate the shelf stock to keep it fresh. Accelerator does not need to be in the fridge unless you are lazy like me and like to keep the accelerator with the CA for one-stop access.

Alex my friend HHG can be reheated. I make mine in a 2-4 ounce bottle and will reheat the bottle 6-10 times over 4-6 weeks while building a guitar. I have never had any problems and store the HHG in the fridge when not in use.

I use CA glues at work to attach strain gages to the structures we test. The recommendations we get with these glues is to refridgerate the unopened containers to extend the shelf life of the glue, but not to return a container once it has been opened to the refridgerator. Moisture will accelerate the cure of CA's, and warm, moist air entering the opened container and then condensing will greatly reduce the shelf life. We use small (1 oz.) bottles and pitch them after 6 months of opening ( or use them for non-critical luthier applications ).

Tom

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Tom Barton

I make up a batch of hide glue and then put it in small plastic squeeze bottles which go into the freezer. These keep for over a year. When I start using a bottle, it will go into and out of the refrigerator several times until it is used up.

Do you let your LMI white warm up before using it? (Or keep a small bottle out at room temp?)

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

That makes sense to me. Thanks, Tom.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I emailed Norland about storing their High Tack Fish Glue in the refrigerator, and below is part of the response I received from Richard Norland.

"...It's not unusual for customers to use the product for 2 or
more years. Refrigeration won't hurt it and will extend the shelf life
further.

Some customers keep a portion of HTFG at room temp for daily use and keep
the remainder in the refrigerator. It will gel in the refrigerator, and
they warm it back to room temp to make it a liquid again."

I recently emailed Lee Valley about their HTFG which I think is the same thing from Norland(?). I asked whether storing it in the fridge would give any benefit.

Anyway here's the response:
"Although we have no documentation stating this we believe this would help extend the life.

On a personal note I use polyurethane glues and these have a known short life. I store it in my refrigerator and have extended the life of the glue considerably from the stated duration. The only issue is to think ahead. It takes quite a bit of time for it to warm up to a working temperature and at times for a small little project it is a frustrating wait.

The other fact is that this glue can go through numerous freeze and thaw cycles so storing it in the refrigerator is not going to cause any degradation."

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Jeremy Douglas

Thanks, Jeremy. I didn't know polyurethane glues had a short shelf life. I don't use them much. I'll have to read the label of the bottle I have. Does anyone else here have anything to add about their experience with storage of polyurethane glue?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Polyurethane glues have the shortest shelf lives, they pretty much kick in the bottle within a few weeks after you open 'em. Someone should start selling them in the 'no air' squeezy tubes they use to put icing on cakes, keeping the air away might extend the shelf life.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Regarding polyurethane glues curing in the bottle, I found this very interesting article:

http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive9 ... stuck.html

BTW, the bottle of Elmer's Ultimate I have in my shop (the first bottle of polyurethane glue I ever bought) was opened several months ago and is still fine. It has not been refrigerated. Considering that moisture is the catalyst that kicks polyurethane glue, I would think that refrigerating an opened bottle might make it kick faster, for the same reason Tom explained with regard to CA (condensation).

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/